4 ms·

None of your examples are "inject this medication to keep your job." Very, very different, and unprecedented for the general public.

Filligree 5y ago
Unprecedented? What? How do you think we eradicated Smallpox?
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  I'm pretty sure we did not eradicate smallpox by firing people for not getting the vaccine...
  - mmastrac 5y ago
    Montreal did in fact have a mandate for the Smallpox vaccine in the past.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - whoisburbansky 5y ago
    It's hilarious you say that, since that's exactly how we eradicated smallpox: https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/197/11/ https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/197/11/
- selcuka 5y ago
  > I'm pretty sure we did not eradicate smallpox by firing people for not getting the vaccine... Yes we did: > In 1901 a deadly smallpox epidemic tore through the Northeast, prompting the Boston and Cambridge boards of health to order the vaccination of all residents. But some refused to get the shot, claiming the vaccine order violated their personal liberties under the Constitution. > One of those holdouts, a Swedish-born pastor named Henning Jacobson, took his anti-vaccine crusade all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. The nation's top justices issued a landmark 1905 ruling that legitimized the authority of states to “reasonably” infringe upon personal freedoms during a public health crisis by issuing a fine to those who refused vaccination.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - jml7c5 5y ago
    I believe you replied to the wrong comment. (Just a note for anyone who is confused.)
    - selcuka 5y ago
      Yes, sorry for not mentioning it, but the reply button was not visible for some reason (possibly HN thought that it's a flamewar), hence the closest comment and the quote. :/
  - dham 5y ago
    Smallpox was actually deadly though. If Covid had the death rate of Smallpox then everyone would have gotten a vaccine. That's the end of the discussion. If your neighbor is bleeding from their eyes (Ebola) then people will take the vaccine. The reason Covid is different is because most people have to be reminded every day that it even exists, take a test every-time they sniffle to get diagnosed. So you can imagine vaccine uptick is just going to be less. It's a fact of life. The connection just isn't there.
    - Ensorceled 5y ago
      COVID has killed 919,336 Americans, excess deaths over previous years indicate that is under reported by almost 50%.
      - brandonmenc 5y ago
        Smallpox is like - at minimum - 30x more deadly - probably up to 70x more deadly - kills fully half of infected children under age 1 - and renders blind around 1% of those infected. It's ridiculous to even compare the two.
    - selcuka 5y ago
      > If Covid had the death rate of Smallpox then everyone would have gotten a vaccine. The point is even with smallpox some people refused to get the vaccine. People are weird.
- walterbell 5y ago
  > How do you think we eradicated Smallpox? By quarantine and contact tracing, after vaccination failed. https://www.historytoday.com/archive/end-smallpox https://www.historytoday.com/archive/end-smallpox > Contrary to popular belief smallpox was not eradicated by mass vaccination. Though tried initially it proved difficult to implement in many countries and was abandoned in favour of surveillance-containment. This involved trained workers searching for cases, with rewards for those who found them. Cases and their contacts were then isolated; contacts were vaccinated. Interestingly this strategy incorporated elements of a system devised in 1778 by John Haygarth in Chester. The last natural case occurred in Somalia in 1977 and after exhaustive enquiries the 1980 WHO Assembly concluded that smallpox had been eradicated. 1902 letter about the Leicester, UK method that was later adopted elsewhere, https://ia601300.us.archive.org/28/items/b24765430/b24765430.pdf https://ia601300.us.archive.org/28/items/b24765430/b24765430... > I am far from saying that vaccination is a delusion, but the experience of Leicester during the past thirty years has been unique, and shows that compulsory vaccination is not essential for the effectual control of smallpox, for despite the neglect of vaccination, the authorities here have been successful in stamping out numerous outbreaks of smallpox, the deaths from the disease have been very few, and the expense involved, when compared with that in other well-vaccinated towns, has been trifling. Under these circumstances I have ventured to publish the following paper, read at the Congress of the Royal Institute of Public Health, held at Exeter, in August, which explains in detail what is known as the “Leicester system of dealing with smallpox.”
- brandonmenc 5y ago
  I meant unprecedented in modern times under modern notions of medical ethics and bodily autonomy which didn't exist over a hundred years ago.

Filligree 5y ago

Unprecedented? What? How do you think we eradicated Smallpox?

AnimalMuppet 5y ago
I'm pretty sure we did not eradicate smallpox by firing people for not getting the vaccine...
- mmastrac 5y ago
  Montreal did in fact have a mandate for the Smallpox vaccine in the past.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- whoisburbansky 5y ago
  It's hilarious you say that, since that's exactly how we eradicated smallpox: https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/197/11/ https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/197/11/
selcuka 5y ago
> I'm pretty sure we did not eradicate smallpox by firing people for not getting the vaccine... Yes we did: > In 1901 a deadly smallpox epidemic tore through the Northeast, prompting the Boston and Cambridge boards of health to order the vaccination of all residents. But some refused to get the shot, claiming the vaccine order violated their personal liberties under the Constitution. > One of those holdouts, a Swedish-born pastor named Henning Jacobson, took his anti-vaccine crusade all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. The nation's top justices issued a landmark 1905 ruling that legitimized the authority of states to “reasonably” infringe upon personal freedoms during a public health crisis by issuing a fine to those who refused vaccination.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- jml7c5 5y ago
  I believe you replied to the wrong comment. (Just a note for anyone who is confused.)
  - selcuka 5y ago
    Yes, sorry for not mentioning it, but the reply button was not visible for some reason (possibly HN thought that it's a flamewar), hence the closest comment and the quote. :/
- dham 5y ago
  Smallpox was actually deadly though. If Covid had the death rate of Smallpox then everyone would have gotten a vaccine. That's the end of the discussion. If your neighbor is bleeding from their eyes (Ebola) then people will take the vaccine. The reason Covid is different is because most people have to be reminded every day that it even exists, take a test every-time they sniffle to get diagnosed. So you can imagine vaccine uptick is just going to be less. It's a fact of life. The connection just isn't there.
  - Ensorceled 5y ago
    COVID has killed 919,336 Americans, excess deaths over previous years indicate that is under reported by almost 50%.
    - brandonmenc 5y ago
      Smallpox is like - at minimum - 30x more deadly - probably up to 70x more deadly - kills fully half of infected children under age 1 - and renders blind around 1% of those infected. It's ridiculous to even compare the two.
  - selcuka 5y ago
    > If Covid had the death rate of Smallpox then everyone would have gotten a vaccine. The point is even with smallpox some people refused to get the vaccine. People are weird.
walterbell 5y ago
> How do you think we eradicated Smallpox? By quarantine and contact tracing, after vaccination failed. https://www.historytoday.com/archive/end-smallpox https://www.historytoday.com/archive/end-smallpox > Contrary to popular belief smallpox was not eradicated by mass vaccination. Though tried initially it proved difficult to implement in many countries and was abandoned in favour of surveillance-containment. This involved trained workers searching for cases, with rewards for those who found them. Cases and their contacts were then isolated; contacts were vaccinated. Interestingly this strategy incorporated elements of a system devised in 1778 by John Haygarth in Chester. The last natural case occurred in Somalia in 1977 and after exhaustive enquiries the 1980 WHO Assembly concluded that smallpox had been eradicated. 1902 letter about the Leicester, UK method that was later adopted elsewhere, https://ia601300.us.archive.org/28/items/b24765430/b24765430.pdf https://ia601300.us.archive.org/28/items/b24765430/b24765430... > I am far from saying that vaccination is a delusion, but the experience of Leicester during the past thirty years has been unique, and shows that compulsory vaccination is not essential for the effectual control of smallpox, for despite the neglect of vaccination, the authorities here have been successful in stamping out numerous outbreaks of smallpox, the deaths from the disease have been very few, and the expense involved, when compared with that in other well-vaccinated towns, has been trifling. Under these circumstances I have ventured to publish the following paper, read at the Congress of the Royal Institute of Public Health, held at Exeter, in August, which explains in detail what is known as the “Leicester system of dealing with smallpox.”
brandonmenc 5y ago
I meant unprecedented in modern times under modern notions of medical ethics and bodily autonomy which didn't exist over a hundred years ago.