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"Using government power intended for things like war" This isn't the war measures act. It is a response specifically targeted to situations like this. "I hope

"Using government power intended for things like war" This isn't the war measures act. It is a response specifically targeted to situations like this. "I hope the response is a protest escalation" That's neat. I hope that every protester that misused a privilege of their CDL lose their truck license, lose insurance, have their bank accounts locked, and face enormous fines. I guess we have differing hopes. Sign petitions. Make a new political party. Lobby. Do a campaign. But if you try to force your political will through force -- which parking large trucks throughout cities and on border crossings is -- you have crossed a line and need to be reigned in. "Not my country" Oh gosh, what a surprise... And then, of course, a comparison with completely irrelevant other events that most of us also found reprehensible. I hate when the protests appear on HN because it makes me realize how terrible "right wing" so many on here are (not conservative -- I'm conservative -- but rather a particularly...stupid and angry version that now parades as right wing in the US), and how absolutely reprehensible opinions are. A sort of "look someone previously in a different country and a completely different event tore stuff down so let them go wild in another country to own the libs". Just garbage takes that should be embarrassing to the speaker.

tdfx 5y ago
> But if you try to force your political will through force [...] you have crossed a line and need to be reigned in Like forcing people out of their job for refusing a vaccine? Disclaimer: I'm vaccinated and I encourage everyone to do it. But no one should have to under threat to their livelihood, especially given the absurd logical inconsistencies of the mandate rules.
- defaultname 5y ago
  > Like forcing people out of their job for refusing a vaccine? Before vaccination was politicized in the US (bizarrely, I must say, through mechanisms that I find absolutely baffling), many jobs had mandatory vaccinations. Most healthcare setting have mandatory yearly flu vaccinations, for instance. The military has a whole plethora of mandatory vaccinations, including some pretty crazy ones. And of course schools, daycare, etc have forced vaccinations. Suddenly it's a big issue. Ask yourself why. And for what it's worth, I've been against mandates since omicron made it evident that they were no longer useful. I have zero tolerance for these protests, though, and would like to see them absolutely stomped.
  - dibujante 5y ago
    It's a big issue because Putin wants it to be a big issue.
  - mmastrac 5y ago
    > Before vaccination was politicized in the US I remember seeing the roots of this in the early 2000s after the discredited Wakefield study. It was so bizarre.
  - 14 5y ago
    I would say the difference is many of the other vaccines actually work. You won’t catch the disease if you get them. The covid vaccine does not do that. Also they fired people for not taking it but now require those who took it but are sick to work anyways. It’s no longer about protecting the population but rather forcing people to do what they are told. Forcing us back to work while sick was the line crossed that changed my mind this vaccine is not about public safety.
    - bearjaws 5y ago
      It does protect people though? 5x more likely to die while unvaccinated than vaccinated. Side effects of getting covid are significantly worse than any real reported side effects as well. Which at this point you will get covid if you haven't had it already. All the sick people piling up in the hospital ruins care for others who are in ER for other reasons, this isn't about control, it's about doing whats best for everyone. We've had vaccine mandates for decades at this point, if it wasn't for the Fox News & the Murdoch Cinematic Universe this would really be a non-issue. https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination
  - mdorazio 5y ago
    Here's the why: all of those vaccination requirements are known to people before they enter the job/school/military. That is wholly different from being in a profession and then one day being told you have to get vaccinated or get fired.
  - ifyoubuildit 5y ago
nameisname 5y ago
Have you ever done what you're talking about? I have. It's borderline impossible to get even 100 votes and you have to start by cold calling minimum 100 people to sign consent to candidacy. If you actually believe anything you've said you're completely out to lunch.
LudwigNagasena 5y ago
> That's neat. I hope that every protester that misused a privilege of their CDL lose their truck license, lose insurance, have their bank accounts locked, and face enormous fines. I guess we have differing hopes. Yeah. Ruining people's lives is a weird desire that somehow became very popular in recent years among the same people who usually criticized punitive justice. > Sign petitions. Make a new political party. Lobby. Do a campaign. But if you try to force your political will through force -- which parking large trucks throughout cities and on border crossings is -- you have crossed a line and need to be reigned in. Signing petitions and lobbying is a privilege of people with power. Neither the US nor France became a republic by signing petitions. Those are, of course, extremes, but those events are the basis of the liberal democracy, so it is quite ridiculous to dismiss everything beyond petitions and parties as crossing a line. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 wasn't enacted because someone signed a petition either. In fact, the protests were widely unpopular among people (https://imgur.com/4GYbaDt https://imgur.com/4GYbaDt). Gene Sharp, a political scientists that studied nonviolent struggle, described in his book (http://www.aeinstein.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/TARA.pdf http://www.aeinstein.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/TARA.pdf ) 198 methods of nonviolent actions, and they include far more possibilities than meek petitions. >A sort of "look someone previously in a different country and a completely different event tore stuff down so let them go wild in another country to own the libs". Just garbage takes that should be embarrassing to the speaker. And there is a vicious cycle where people are trying to one-up garbage takes by coming up with more and more ridiculous responses to each other.
mdoms 5y ago
Did you feel the same way about BLM protestors who shut down "autonomous zones" in several major cities?

tdfx 5y ago

> But if you try to force your political will through force [...] you have crossed a line and need to be reigned in Like forcing people out of their job for refusing a vaccine? Disclaimer: I'm vaccinated and I encourage everyone to do it. But no one should have to under threat to their livelihood, especially given the absurd logical inconsistencies of the mandate rules.

defaultname 5y ago
> Like forcing people out of their job for refusing a vaccine? Before vaccination was politicized in the US (bizarrely, I must say, through mechanisms that I find absolutely baffling), many jobs had mandatory vaccinations. Most healthcare setting have mandatory yearly flu vaccinations, for instance. The military has a whole plethora of mandatory vaccinations, including some pretty crazy ones. And of course schools, daycare, etc have forced vaccinations. Suddenly it's a big issue. Ask yourself why. And for what it's worth, I've been against mandates since omicron made it evident that they were no longer useful. I have zero tolerance for these protests, though, and would like to see them absolutely stomped.
- dibujante 5y ago
  It's a big issue because Putin wants it to be a big issue.
- mmastrac 5y ago
  > Before vaccination was politicized in the US I remember seeing the roots of this in the early 2000s after the discredited Wakefield study. It was so bizarre.
- 14 5y ago
  I would say the difference is many of the other vaccines actually work. You won’t catch the disease if you get them. The covid vaccine does not do that. Also they fired people for not taking it but now require those who took it but are sick to work anyways. It’s no longer about protecting the population but rather forcing people to do what they are told. Forcing us back to work while sick was the line crossed that changed my mind this vaccine is not about public safety.
  - bearjaws 5y ago
    It does protect people though? 5x more likely to die while unvaccinated than vaccinated. Side effects of getting covid are significantly worse than any real reported side effects as well. Which at this point you will get covid if you haven't had it already. All the sick people piling up in the hospital ruins care for others who are in ER for other reasons, this isn't about control, it's about doing whats best for everyone. We've had vaccine mandates for decades at this point, if it wasn't for the Fox News & the Murdoch Cinematic Universe this would really be a non-issue. https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination
- mdorazio 5y ago
  Here's the why: all of those vaccination requirements are known to people before they enter the job/school/military. That is wholly different from being in a profession and then one day being told you have to get vaccinated or get fired.
- ifyoubuildit 5y ago

nameisname 5y ago

Have you ever done what you're talking about? I have. It's borderline impossible to get even 100 votes and you have to start by cold calling minimum 100 people to sign consent to candidacy. If you actually believe anything you've said you're completely out to lunch.

LudwigNagasena 5y ago

> That's neat. I hope that every protester that misused a privilege of their CDL lose their truck license, lose insurance, have their bank accounts locked, and face enormous fines. I guess we have differing hopes. Yeah. Ruining people's lives is a weird desire that somehow became very popular in recent years among the same people who usually criticized punitive justice. > Sign petitions. Make a new political party. Lobby. Do a campaign. But if you try to force your political will through force -- which parking large trucks throughout cities and on border crossings is -- you have crossed a line and need to be reigned in. Signing petitions and lobbying is a privilege of people with power. Neither the US nor France became a republic by signing petitions. Those are, of course, extremes, but those events are the basis of the liberal democracy, so it is quite ridiculous to dismiss everything beyond petitions and parties as crossing a line. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 wasn't enacted because someone signed a petition either. In fact, the protests were widely unpopular among people (https://imgur.com/4GYbaDt https://imgur.com/4GYbaDt). Gene Sharp, a political scientists that studied nonviolent struggle, described in his book (http://www.aeinstein.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/TARA.pdf http://www.aeinstein.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/TARA.pdf ) 198 methods of nonviolent actions, and they include far more possibilities than meek petitions. >A sort of "look someone previously in a different country and a completely different event tore stuff down so let them go wild in another country to own the libs". Just garbage takes that should be embarrassing to the speaker. And there is a vicious cycle where people are trying to one-up garbage takes by coming up with more and more ridiculous responses to each other.

mdoms 5y ago

Did you feel the same way about BLM protestors who shut down "autonomous zones" in several major cities?