8 ms·

Polling whether rights should be suspended is dangerous. I know nothing of Canadian law, but in the US if 2/3 polled said a peaceful protest should be broken up

Polling whether rights should be suspended is dangerous. I know nothing of Canadian law, but in the US if 2/3 polled said a peaceful protest should be broken up by the military. The response should condemnation and reassertion of our unalienable rights.

jsjsbdkj 5y ago
This is not a peaceful protest. There have been multiple documented assaults on the street and of people in the service industry. There were several attempts to burn down residential buildings full of people. The protestors have violated injunctions against making noises at volumes that are harmful to people's hearing, and depriving people of sleep.
- rafale 5y ago
  I have seen you here for a while. I don't ever remember seeing you call out antifa or blm rioters when they set fire to buildings.
  - data-ottawa 5y ago
    I’ve been a lurker for many years, but felt I needed to make an account to counter you here. What about X or Y is not a valid response to this argument. You can have no public opinion on antifa or BLM in another country to have the opinion that activity in your own community is not okay. We can compare this to BLM or antifa, but we can also compare BLM or antifa to the Arab spring or French revolution to say that they’re relatively peaceful too. The fact is this entire thing has been horribly covered by the media. There are a lot of groups and factions involved in the protest. The main leadership group is organized (and fundraised) by Canada Unity, and their original demands were to overthrow the democratically elected government to install themselves as government and rule through the senate and governer general. You can look that up in their original MOU on the way back machine. The means of the protest was to park heavy equipment and harass the citizens of downtown Ottawa (via keeping them awake 24/7 with train horns, arguably a form of warfare) until the federal government capitulated to demands. This is essentially the “I’m not touching you, but my hand is directly in front of your face” form of harassment. Later that evolved into blocking border crossings, which is explicitly illegal and explicitly under the criminal code listed as not an acceptable form of protest. The complications of this issue are confounded by the fact that more than half the donated funds are foreign funds to a protest that was deemed an illegal action.
    - rafale 5y ago
      I agree with you. I personally support the spirit of the protest (i.e. the vaccines should be optional for most jobs and the vaccine mandate should be relaxed) but not the tools they are using, in particular blocking a vital bridge and the honking shenanigans. I personally have no problem in expressing a nuanced point of view or accepting that I got something wrong. Truth is a very elusive concept. And I rather learn than argue. The person I was replying to however is aggressively partisan in his opinions. And while it's true that my comment wasn't a proper rebuttal, it does address his lack of credibility for arguing a one sided view of the world.
- aksss 5y ago
  > “several attempts to burn down residential buildings full of people” Sauce?
  - _whiteCaps_ 5y ago
    https://ottawacitizen.com/news/police-arson-unit-probes-ottawa-fire-allegation-in-heat-of-anti-mandate-protest https://ottawacitizen.com/news/police-arson-unit-probes-otta...
- partiallypro 5y ago
  I'd like to see sources on this. The only thing I've seen is some truckers/protestors walking into a restaraunt unmasked and demanding to be served.
  - _whiteCaps_ 5y ago
    https://ottawacitizen.com/news/police-arson-unit-probes-ottawa-fire-allegation-in-heat-of-anti-mandate-protest https://ottawacitizen.com/news/police-arson-unit-probes-otta...
  - canadian-on-hn 5y ago
    Someone in a sibling comment linked the article about attempted arson. Here's one about protestors attempting to handcuff the doors on a condominium building: https://ottawacitizen.com/news/mcleod-street-condo-residents-rattled-after-men-seen-attempting-to-handcuff-lobby-doors https://ottawacitizen.com/news/mcleod-street-condo-residents... Here's one about "unruly protesters" (quote from the article) shutting down two grocery stores: https://ottawacitizen.com/news/unruly-protesters-prompt-early-closure-of-two-downtown-grocery-stores https://ottawacitizen.com/news/unruly-protesters-prompt-earl... Here's one about a restaurant deciding to close, and stay closed, due to an assault of and racial epithets directed at employees: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/moo-shu-ice-cream-employee-assaulted-ottawa-1.6341207 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/moo-shu-ice-cream-empl...
  - moistly 5y ago
    Weapons, ammunition seized as 12 people arrested at Coutts border blockade https://globalnews.ca/news/8618494/alberta-coutts-border-protest-weapons-ammunition-seized/ https://globalnews.ca/news/8618494/alberta-coutts-border-pro... Convoy protesters break through Surrey RCMP barricade with military-style vehicle https://bc.ctvnews.ca/convoy-protesters-break-through-surrey-rcmp-barricade-with-military-vehicle-as-others-march-to-u-s-border-on-foot-1.5779120 https://bc.ctvnews.ca/convoy-protesters-break-through-surrey...
    - zthrowaway 5y ago
      That’s it? That many people are there and this is the rampant violence? Lol. This is tame as hell. We’re you clutching your pearls this much during the violent BLM protests where people actually died and buildings burned to the ground with bodies later found inside?
- zthrowaway 5y ago
  I wish there was this much concern for the antifa / blm protests that terrorized cities including Portland for over 3 months in summer of 2020.
fishidns 5y ago
Why do you say it's peaceful? The only reason for the act is because of the illegal blockades which is affecting essential services, goods and livelihood of local business and citizens. A peaceful protest cannot hold people hostage by blocking their access to essential services and goods, and trapping them in. If the protest stopped doing that, then it's fine to continue as long as it wants. You can't have a very small minority get its way by simply holding others hostage to their services and goods. The point of a protest is to be heard and get people to consider your cause, not to consider your demands through extraction.
- skrbjc 5y ago
  You seem to have never heard of a strike.
  - MattGaiser 5y ago
    At least in Canada, strikers cannot block access to the facility either. https://www.go2hr.ca/legal/strikes-lockouts-picketing-and-replacement-workers https://www.go2hr.ca/legal/strikes-lockouts-picketing-and-re...
  - lovecg 5y ago
    A strike is a bunch of people refusing to work, not a bunch of people blocking access to unrelated essential services. They do things like overwhelm the 911 service with spurious calls and circling their trucks around schools. This is not a strike, this is outright terrorism. Someone will die (or already has) because they don’t have access to an essential service.
    - tmn 5y ago
      This is not out right terrorism. Take a breath
      - lovecg 5y ago
        Fine, fine - it’s a hyperbole. But you have to agree that’s a step above simply protesting - on par with vandalism maybe?

jsjsbdkj 5y ago

This is not a peaceful protest. There have been multiple documented assaults on the street and of people in the service industry. There were several attempts to burn down residential buildings full of people. The protestors have violated injunctions against making noises at volumes that are harmful to people's hearing, and depriving people of sleep.

rafale 5y ago
I have seen you here for a while. I don't ever remember seeing you call out antifa or blm rioters when they set fire to buildings.
- data-ottawa 5y ago
  I’ve been a lurker for many years, but felt I needed to make an account to counter you here. What about X or Y is not a valid response to this argument. You can have no public opinion on antifa or BLM in another country to have the opinion that activity in your own community is not okay. We can compare this to BLM or antifa, but we can also compare BLM or antifa to the Arab spring or French revolution to say that they’re relatively peaceful too. The fact is this entire thing has been horribly covered by the media. There are a lot of groups and factions involved in the protest. The main leadership group is organized (and fundraised) by Canada Unity, and their original demands were to overthrow the democratically elected government to install themselves as government and rule through the senate and governer general. You can look that up in their original MOU on the way back machine. The means of the protest was to park heavy equipment and harass the citizens of downtown Ottawa (via keeping them awake 24/7 with train horns, arguably a form of warfare) until the federal government capitulated to demands. This is essentially the “I’m not touching you, but my hand is directly in front of your face” form of harassment. Later that evolved into blocking border crossings, which is explicitly illegal and explicitly under the criminal code listed as not an acceptable form of protest. The complications of this issue are confounded by the fact that more than half the donated funds are foreign funds to a protest that was deemed an illegal action.
  - rafale 5y ago
    I agree with you. I personally support the spirit of the protest (i.e. the vaccines should be optional for most jobs and the vaccine mandate should be relaxed) but not the tools they are using, in particular blocking a vital bridge and the honking shenanigans. I personally have no problem in expressing a nuanced point of view or accepting that I got something wrong. Truth is a very elusive concept. And I rather learn than argue. The person I was replying to however is aggressively partisan in his opinions. And while it's true that my comment wasn't a proper rebuttal, it does address his lack of credibility for arguing a one sided view of the world.
aksss 5y ago
> “several attempts to burn down residential buildings full of people” Sauce?
- _whiteCaps_ 5y ago
  https://ottawacitizen.com/news/police-arson-unit-probes-ottawa-fire-allegation-in-heat-of-anti-mandate-protest https://ottawacitizen.com/news/police-arson-unit-probes-otta...
partiallypro 5y ago
I'd like to see sources on this. The only thing I've seen is some truckers/protestors walking into a restaraunt unmasked and demanding to be served.
- _whiteCaps_ 5y ago
  https://ottawacitizen.com/news/police-arson-unit-probes-ottawa-fire-allegation-in-heat-of-anti-mandate-protest https://ottawacitizen.com/news/police-arson-unit-probes-otta...
- canadian-on-hn 5y ago
  Someone in a sibling comment linked the article about attempted arson. Here's one about protestors attempting to handcuff the doors on a condominium building: https://ottawacitizen.com/news/mcleod-street-condo-residents-rattled-after-men-seen-attempting-to-handcuff-lobby-doors https://ottawacitizen.com/news/mcleod-street-condo-residents... Here's one about "unruly protesters" (quote from the article) shutting down two grocery stores: https://ottawacitizen.com/news/unruly-protesters-prompt-early-closure-of-two-downtown-grocery-stores https://ottawacitizen.com/news/unruly-protesters-prompt-earl... Here's one about a restaurant deciding to close, and stay closed, due to an assault of and racial epithets directed at employees: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/moo-shu-ice-cream-employee-assaulted-ottawa-1.6341207 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/moo-shu-ice-cream-empl...
- moistly 5y ago
  Weapons, ammunition seized as 12 people arrested at Coutts border blockade https://globalnews.ca/news/8618494/alberta-coutts-border-protest-weapons-ammunition-seized/ https://globalnews.ca/news/8618494/alberta-coutts-border-pro... Convoy protesters break through Surrey RCMP barricade with military-style vehicle https://bc.ctvnews.ca/convoy-protesters-break-through-surrey-rcmp-barricade-with-military-vehicle-as-others-march-to-u-s-border-on-foot-1.5779120 https://bc.ctvnews.ca/convoy-protesters-break-through-surrey...
  - zthrowaway 5y ago
    That’s it? That many people are there and this is the rampant violence? Lol. This is tame as hell. We’re you clutching your pearls this much during the violent BLM protests where people actually died and buildings burned to the ground with bodies later found inside?
zthrowaway 5y ago
I wish there was this much concern for the antifa / blm protests that terrorized cities including Portland for over 3 months in summer of 2020.

fishidns 5y ago

Why do you say it's peaceful? The only reason for the act is because of the illegal blockades which is affecting essential services, goods and livelihood of local business and citizens. A peaceful protest cannot hold people hostage by blocking their access to essential services and goods, and trapping them in. If the protest stopped doing that, then it's fine to continue as long as it wants. You can't have a very small minority get its way by simply holding others hostage to their services and goods. The point of a protest is to be heard and get people to consider your cause, not to consider your demands through extraction.

skrbjc 5y ago
You seem to have never heard of a strike.
- MattGaiser 5y ago
  At least in Canada, strikers cannot block access to the facility either. https://www.go2hr.ca/legal/strikes-lockouts-picketing-and-replacement-workers https://www.go2hr.ca/legal/strikes-lockouts-picketing-and-re...
- lovecg 5y ago
  A strike is a bunch of people refusing to work, not a bunch of people blocking access to unrelated essential services. They do things like overwhelm the 911 service with spurious calls and circling their trucks around schools. This is not a strike, this is outright terrorism. Someone will die (or already has) because they don’t have access to an essential service.
  - tmn 5y ago
    This is not out right terrorism. Take a breath
    - lovecg 5y ago
      Fine, fine - it’s a hyperbole. But you have to agree that’s a step above simply protesting - on par with vandalism maybe?