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I along with my friends (who are vaxxed but only did so because their work coerced them) have been at the protest in Ottawa for 3 weekends. It's always been pea

I along with my friends (who are vaxxed but only did so because their work coerced them) have been at the protest in Ottawa for 3 weekends. It's always been peaceful, friendly and almost like Canada day celebrations. It was loud the first week due to honking but even that's stopped. And even if there were honking, that's not violence. I am brown and my buddy is black and neither of us met with anything other than friendly hugs and fist bumps. Then we get home and see an entirely different reporting on media and by government. Here's an article written by a government employee who lives right above the protests: https://maybury.ca/the-reformed-physicist/2022/02/03/a-night-with-the-untouchables/ https://maybury.ca/the-reformed-physicist/2022/02/03/a-night... EDIT: Reply to comment below, I was personally there because of the air-travel mandate by the Feds and restaurant/gym mandates by my province. Triple vaxxed Trudeau can fly even while he caught COVID. Triple vaxxed Mayor Jim Watson can go to restaurants and gyms despite being COVID+. But I am not allowed to fly or go to restaurants and gyms even if I can show a negative COVID test. I also talked to nurses there who worked for 2 years taking care of COVID patients, caught COVID along with their entire family, got natural immunity which is superior, and then got fired for not taking the shots. Yet Ontario and Quebec is letting COVID+ nurses to work if they are vaxxed. Also women are a lot more against the mandates than men based on my impression which seems to match the surveys.

Jackim 5y ago
- dang 5y ago
  Attacking another user will get you banned here, regardless of how right you are or feel you are. Perhaps you don't feel you owe political opponents better, but you owe this community better if you're participating in it. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
  - Jackim 5y ago
    Sorry, thanks for the reminder. I've had a tough time in my city over the past 3 weeks.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
dbtc 5y ago
Hey, I respect that. I'm curious if the protests are just about the vaccine mandates, or are there other things too that are drawing people out?
- __blockcipher__ 5y ago
  Not the GP but it seems like for most people their line is a full end to all the COVID restrictions, not just the vax mandates. That sentiment was echoed in this podcast I listened to the other night: https://youtu.be/H-T_EGVdYwk https://youtu.be/H-T_EGVdYwk The guy being interviewed is just a dude, not a leader in the movement AFAIK. But he’s probably a good representation of what the average person attending the protests wants.
synthos 5y ago
False: 'got natural immunity which is superior'
- shrubble 5y ago
  'Natural Immunity Superior to Vaccines Against Delta Variant, CDC study finds' ... Associated Press article, January 22, 2022.
- plebianRube 5y ago
  https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/prior-covid-infection-more-protective-than-vaccination-during-delta-surge-us-2022-01-19/ https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/... > surviving a previous infection now provided greater protection against the subsequent infection than vaccination > Protection against Delta was highest, however, among people who were both vaccinated and had survived a previous COVID infection So natural immunity is better than only being vaxed, but getting a vaccine increases your protection in both cases. In order of protection: 1. cleared infection + vax 2. cleared infection 3. vax
  - busymom0 5y ago
    The "cleared infection + vax" is statistically similar to "cleared infection" btw. Also natural infection antibodies have been shown to last for at least 20 months. We know vaccine one wanes in 3-6 months. There's also some evidence on those with prior infection having higher chances of side-effects, though more research is needed. https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/vaccine-after-effects-more-common-in-those-who-already-had-covid https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/vaccine-after-effects-more-co...
synthos 5y ago
"It was loud the first week due to honking but even that's stopped. And even if there were honking, that's not violence." Some trucks had train horns installed, significantly louder than regular horns. Trucks were honking continuously, all night. There is a line where too much noise can be considered violence. Certainly, if I was downtown and had a baby trying to sleep during that shit I'd be throwing rocks at trucks at 2am.
rtpg 5y ago
"got natural immunity which is superior" is factually incorrect, at least to every statistical study done by national health orgs. I see many people say "this person, who is vaccinated but got COVID anyways, is allowed to do X. Other person, who has a negative COVID test but am not vaccinated, cannot. That is hypocritical." Can someone explain the hypocrisy? People do get that negative COVID tests have relatively little proof value after a day or so right?
- armagon 5y ago
  So many rules have been dubious and nonsensical. I don't recall the specifics, but it seems like at one time in Alberta you could get together with 20 people, but you could only have ten people get together for a funeral. The point of allowing a person to do X is based on the safety of them doing X. If we are preventing X due to fear of covid, then it makes sense to prevent people from doing X if they have covid, regardless of their vaccination status, and allowing them to do it if they do not have covid, regardless of their vaccination status. Some of the rules appear to be punitive towards people who have chosen not to be vaccinated, and not designed to curb the spread of the disease; that is why hypocrisy is being called out.
  - rtpg 5y ago
    >Some of the rules appear to be punitive towards people who have chosen not to be vaccinated, and not designed to curb the spread of the disease; that is why hypocrisy is being called out. If more of the population were vaccinated the spread of the disease would be curbed (there are still places under 60% vaccination in the US, for example). It would not be sufficient, but yes the point is to create spaces where you have less risk. The rule is designed to get more people to be vaccinated. It is accomplishing that objective. (more nuanced is that I don't believe "vaccinated means everything is OK" is the right position either, and that "vaccinate, but also try to do stuff at half capacity" etc etc would be better but...) A room with 100% vaccinated people is going to be safer than a room with 100% of people showing up with day-old negative covid tests. (EDIT: actually not sure of this as much now that I'm thinking about it...) Ultimately the rules forcing vaccination are a result of a huge part of the population refusing vaccination, which is the single most effective policy. It's roundabout because governments don't have the courage to just force the issue (or waited too long and now there's a coalesced movement against it). Sorry if unvaccinated people feel bad because of it. If they cared about not getting people sick they would vaccinate. Taking covid tests every day doesn't improve your immunity.
pkd 5y ago
Are you friends federal government employees? If not, then the vaccination policy is enacted by the corporation they work for, not the government. I'm glad you have felt at home at the protests, I'm sure if you tried to ask critical questions about vaccine efficiency and the active participation of far right extremists like Pat King in the protests, you'd have received a much colder welcome. Thousands of people in Ottawa have been affected by the occupation. At least 1000 workers of the Rideau Center are out of a job because the protestors kept trying to force their way into the shops without masks. Covid is a respiratory disease and the use of well fitting masks are shown to significantly reduce transmission. Why are the protestors ignoring the science behind the policies? If the protestors are rational, why haven't the protestors called out the loud lunatics amongst them who are on bullhorns shouting how Trudeau is a devil worshipper and pedophile? Why have white supremacists like Pat King been allowed key roles in the protests, and allowed to - literally - dance on the sound stage set up on parliament hill? Why did the organisers refuse to answer - earlier today - the simple question from a reporter if there were any firearms present amongst the protestors? What was the rationale behind the "MoU" that called for the democratically elected government to be deposed and replaced with a junta composed of the protest organizers? That wasn't even a fringe demand, it was front and center. Nobody from the protests has had any rational answers for these questions. I'm sorry, but for the residents to be able to accept the inconvenience of being occupied, they have to sympathise with the elements of the protests.
- philistine 5y ago
  Don't call their attempt at a coup a junta. A junta is by definition in English a government by the Army: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junta_(governing_body) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junta_(governing_body)
  - pkd 5y ago
    Fair. That was the term that came to mind in the flow of writing the comment.
- __blockcipher__ 5y ago
  > At least 1000 workers of the Rideau Center are out of a job because the protestors kept trying to force their way into the shops without masks. Those workers are "out of a job" because of the very COVID policies that the truckers et al are rallying against. COVID did not take away those jobs. COVID policies did.

Jackim 5y ago

dang 5y ago
Attacking another user will get you banned here, regardless of how right you are or feel you are. Perhaps you don't feel you owe political opponents better, but you owe this community better if you're participating in it. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.
- Jackim 5y ago
  Sorry, thanks for the reminder. I've had a tough time in my city over the past 3 weeks.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

dbtc 5y ago

Hey, I respect that. I'm curious if the protests are just about the vaccine mandates, or are there other things too that are drawing people out?

__blockcipher__ 5y ago
Not the GP but it seems like for most people their line is a full end to all the COVID restrictions, not just the vax mandates. That sentiment was echoed in this podcast I listened to the other night: https://youtu.be/H-T_EGVdYwk https://youtu.be/H-T_EGVdYwk The guy being interviewed is just a dude, not a leader in the movement AFAIK. But he’s probably a good representation of what the average person attending the protests wants.

synthos 5y ago

False: 'got natural immunity which is superior'

shrubble 5y ago
'Natural Immunity Superior to Vaccines Against Delta Variant, CDC study finds' ... Associated Press article, January 22, 2022.
plebianRube 5y ago
https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/prior-covid-infection-more-protective-than-vaccination-during-delta-surge-us-2022-01-19/ https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/... > surviving a previous infection now provided greater protection against the subsequent infection than vaccination > Protection against Delta was highest, however, among people who were both vaccinated and had survived a previous COVID infection So natural immunity is better than only being vaxed, but getting a vaccine increases your protection in both cases. In order of protection: 1. cleared infection + vax 2. cleared infection 3. vax
- busymom0 5y ago
  The "cleared infection + vax" is statistically similar to "cleared infection" btw. Also natural infection antibodies have been shown to last for at least 20 months. We know vaccine one wanes in 3-6 months. There's also some evidence on those with prior infection having higher chances of side-effects, though more research is needed. https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/vaccine-after-effects-more-common-in-those-who-already-had-covid https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/vaccine-after-effects-more-co...

synthos 5y ago

"It was loud the first week due to honking but even that's stopped. And even if there were honking, that's not violence." Some trucks had train horns installed, significantly louder than regular horns. Trucks were honking continuously, all night. There is a line where too much noise can be considered violence. Certainly, if I was downtown and had a baby trying to sleep during that shit I'd be throwing rocks at trucks at 2am.

rtpg 5y ago

"got natural immunity which is superior" is factually incorrect, at least to every statistical study done by national health orgs. I see many people say "this person, who is vaccinated but got COVID anyways, is allowed to do X. Other person, who has a negative COVID test but am not vaccinated, cannot. That is hypocritical." Can someone explain the hypocrisy? People do get that negative COVID tests have relatively little proof value after a day or so right?

armagon 5y ago
So many rules have been dubious and nonsensical. I don't recall the specifics, but it seems like at one time in Alberta you could get together with 20 people, but you could only have ten people get together for a funeral. The point of allowing a person to do X is based on the safety of them doing X. If we are preventing X due to fear of covid, then it makes sense to prevent people from doing X if they have covid, regardless of their vaccination status, and allowing them to do it if they do not have covid, regardless of their vaccination status. Some of the rules appear to be punitive towards people who have chosen not to be vaccinated, and not designed to curb the spread of the disease; that is why hypocrisy is being called out.
- rtpg 5y ago
  >Some of the rules appear to be punitive towards people who have chosen not to be vaccinated, and not designed to curb the spread of the disease; that is why hypocrisy is being called out. If more of the population were vaccinated the spread of the disease would be curbed (there are still places under 60% vaccination in the US, for example). It would not be sufficient, but yes the point is to create spaces where you have less risk. The rule is designed to get more people to be vaccinated. It is accomplishing that objective. (more nuanced is that I don't believe "vaccinated means everything is OK" is the right position either, and that "vaccinate, but also try to do stuff at half capacity" etc etc would be better but...) A room with 100% vaccinated people is going to be safer than a room with 100% of people showing up with day-old negative covid tests. (EDIT: actually not sure of this as much now that I'm thinking about it...) Ultimately the rules forcing vaccination are a result of a huge part of the population refusing vaccination, which is the single most effective policy. It's roundabout because governments don't have the courage to just force the issue (or waited too long and now there's a coalesced movement against it). Sorry if unvaccinated people feel bad because of it. If they cared about not getting people sick they would vaccinate. Taking covid tests every day doesn't improve your immunity.

pkd 5y ago

Are you friends federal government employees? If not, then the vaccination policy is enacted by the corporation they work for, not the government. I'm glad you have felt at home at the protests, I'm sure if you tried to ask critical questions about vaccine efficiency and the active participation of far right extremists like Pat King in the protests, you'd have received a much colder welcome. Thousands of people in Ottawa have been affected by the occupation. At least 1000 workers of the Rideau Center are out of a job because the protestors kept trying to force their way into the shops without masks. Covid is a respiratory disease and the use of well fitting masks are shown to significantly reduce transmission. Why are the protestors ignoring the science behind the policies? If the protestors are rational, why haven't the protestors called out the loud lunatics amongst them who are on bullhorns shouting how Trudeau is a devil worshipper and pedophile? Why have white supremacists like Pat King been allowed key roles in the protests, and allowed to - literally - dance on the sound stage set up on parliament hill? Why did the organisers refuse to answer - earlier today - the simple question from a reporter if there were any firearms present amongst the protestors? What was the rationale behind the "MoU" that called for the democratically elected government to be deposed and replaced with a junta composed of the protest organizers? That wasn't even a fringe demand, it was front and center. Nobody from the protests has had any rational answers for these questions. I'm sorry, but for the residents to be able to accept the inconvenience of being occupied, they have to sympathise with the elements of the protests.

philistine 5y ago
Don't call their attempt at a coup a junta. A junta is by definition in English a government by the Army: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junta_(governing_body) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junta_(governing_body)
- pkd 5y ago
  Fair. That was the term that came to mind in the flow of writing the comment.
__blockcipher__ 5y ago
> At least 1000 workers of the Rideau Center are out of a job because the protestors kept trying to force their way into the shops without masks. Those workers are "out of a job" because of the very COVID policies that the truckers et al are rallying against. COVID did not take away those jobs. COVID policies did.