5 ms·

I’m not very educated in this subject, but wouldn’t the West coast be the best place for some sort of “clean” desalination water plant?

mdavis6890 5y ago
Regarding California in particular, there is actually plenty of water for the residents. About 80-90% of usable water is used for agriculture, and the majority of that produce is exported from California to other countries and states. For example, all around the capital of Sacramento there are 1000's of acres of rice fields. About half the rice is exported to Asia. Appx 8% or so of California water is used in and around homes, including landscaping. It takes a gallon of water to grow a single almond, and 95%+ of the worlds almonds come from CA. It takes FIFTY gallons to grow an avocado, and 95% of the WORLD's come from CA also. These are not cherry-picked examples. I could have chosen dozens of other crops. So, in effect, California's farmers are selling roughly half of its water (in the form of produce) to other states and countries. It's a bit like Saudi Arabia in this sense, but with water instead of oil. Unlike oil, of course, water does replenish, but nevertheless the rate of export is so high that the aquifers are nearly empty now. Do make sure to take shorter showers though, fellow Californians!
- mdavis6890 5y ago
  Got a downvote or two, so I thought I'd add some references: First, I retract my numbers about 95% of world almonds and avocados coming from CA - I was typing from memory from research I did a year ago, and now I can't find sources to corroborate this. Nevertheless: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almonds_in_California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almonds_in_California "The state produces 80% of the world's almonds and 100% of the United States’ commercial supply." https://www.cdfa.ca.gov/Statistics/ https://www.cdfa.ca.gov/Statistics/ "Over a third of the country's vegetables and two-thirds of the country's fruits and nuts are grown in California." "In 2020 California's farms and ranches received $49.1 billion in cash receipts for their output." "California agricultural exports totaled $21.7 billion in 2019" https://spoonuniversity.com/lifestyle/the-problem-with-drinking-almond-milk-you-probably-never-thought-of https://spoonuniversity.com/lifestyle/the-problem-with-drink... "...between 33 and 248 gallons of water go into producing just a half-gallon of almond milk. I'll let that sink in for a second, before I remind you that 99% of almonds grown in the United States are grown in California..." https://www.truthordrought.com/almond-milk-myths https://www.truthordrought.com/almond-milk-myths "8% of CA ag water is used to grow almonds" (and keep in mind that ag water is 90% of the total usable) https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281474989_How_much_water_does_rice_use https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281474989_How_much_... "On average, about 2,500 liters of water need to be supplied (by rainfall and/or irrigation) to a rice field to produce 1 kg of rough rice." - That's 2.5L per GRAM of rice. https://news.yahoo.com/many-california-farmers-water-cut-130033782.html https://news.yahoo.com/many-california-farmers-water-cut-130... "A handful of districts supplying farmers including Gallagher are receiving nearly 2 million acre feet of water this drought year, enough to supply the city of Los Angeles for roughly four years." People like to talk about the cities being problems, or that it's the water we send down south, or whatever like that. Meanwhile, a handful of (farm) districts, in a single year, are using the equivalent of a 4-year supply of water for the entire city of LA. Wow. And yet: https://abc7news.com/san-jose-water-california-drought-conservation/10965409/ https://abc7news.com/san-jose-water-california-drought-conse... "Whaley said the [San Jose Water] company is asking customers to cutback 15-percent from their 2019 water use levels, and pay $7.13 in surcharges for every unit of water used beyond that amount."
toomuchtodo 5y ago
Desalination requires enormous amounts of energy (although California has large amounts of solar available, ~10GW continuous on most sunny days per ElectricityMap.org [1]), but also creates a high salinity brine that is toxic to most marine life that must be discharged somewhere to mix with existing ocean water. For drinking water, it could be done (at significant cost), with a shift to reclaimed water for landscaping needs. But it is absolutely untenable for agriculture. It's also likely that Hoover Dam's electrical generation output will need to be replaced, in some part, with battery backed utility scale solar (as Lake Mead's water level declines below turbine intake at 950 feet; current water level is ~1050 feet [2]). We've known for over 100 years Western development was unsustainable (due to water) when the Colorado River Compact was originally formed [3] [4], and it was done anyway. [1] https://i.imgur.com/yIoTgJi.png https://i.imgur.com/yIoTgJi.png (sourced from https://app.electricitymap.org/zone/US-CAL-CISO?wind=false&solar=false https://app.electricitymap.org/zone/US-CAL-CISO?wind=false&s...) [2] https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/148758/lake-mead-drops-to-a-record-low https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/148758/lake-mead-dr... [3] https://www.usbr.gov/lc/region/pao/pdfiles/crcompct.pdf https://www.usbr.gov/lc/region/pao/pdfiles/crcompct.pdf [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27909108 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27909108

mdavis6890 5y ago

Regarding California in particular, there is actually plenty of water for the residents. About 80-90% of usable water is used for agriculture, and the majority of that produce is exported from California to other countries and states. For example, all around the capital of Sacramento there are 1000's of acres of rice fields. About half the rice is exported to Asia. Appx 8% or so of California water is used in and around homes, including landscaping. It takes a gallon of water to grow a single almond, and 95%+ of the worlds almonds come from CA. It takes FIFTY gallons to grow an avocado, and 95% of the WORLD's come from CA also. These are not cherry-picked examples. I could have chosen dozens of other crops. So, in effect, California's farmers are selling roughly half of its water (in the form of produce) to other states and countries. It's a bit like Saudi Arabia in this sense, but with water instead of oil. Unlike oil, of course, water does replenish, but nevertheless the rate of export is so high that the aquifers are nearly empty now. Do make sure to take shorter showers though, fellow Californians!

mdavis6890 5y ago
Got a downvote or two, so I thought I'd add some references: First, I retract my numbers about 95% of world almonds and avocados coming from CA - I was typing from memory from research I did a year ago, and now I can't find sources to corroborate this. Nevertheless: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almonds_in_California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almonds_in_California "The state produces 80% of the world's almonds and 100% of the United States’ commercial supply." https://www.cdfa.ca.gov/Statistics/ https://www.cdfa.ca.gov/Statistics/ "Over a third of the country's vegetables and two-thirds of the country's fruits and nuts are grown in California." "In 2020 California's farms and ranches received $49.1 billion in cash receipts for their output." "California agricultural exports totaled $21.7 billion in 2019" https://spoonuniversity.com/lifestyle/the-problem-with-drinking-almond-milk-you-probably-never-thought-of https://spoonuniversity.com/lifestyle/the-problem-with-drink... "...between 33 and 248 gallons of water go into producing just a half-gallon of almond milk. I'll let that sink in for a second, before I remind you that 99% of almonds grown in the United States are grown in California..." https://www.truthordrought.com/almond-milk-myths https://www.truthordrought.com/almond-milk-myths "8% of CA ag water is used to grow almonds" (and keep in mind that ag water is 90% of the total usable) https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281474989_How_much_water_does_rice_use https://www.researchgate.net/publication/281474989_How_much_... "On average, about 2,500 liters of water need to be supplied (by rainfall and/or irrigation) to a rice field to produce 1 kg of rough rice." - That's 2.5L per GRAM of rice. https://news.yahoo.com/many-california-farmers-water-cut-130033782.html https://news.yahoo.com/many-california-farmers-water-cut-130... "A handful of districts supplying farmers including Gallagher are receiving nearly 2 million acre feet of water this drought year, enough to supply the city of Los Angeles for roughly four years." People like to talk about the cities being problems, or that it's the water we send down south, or whatever like that. Meanwhile, a handful of (farm) districts, in a single year, are using the equivalent of a 4-year supply of water for the entire city of LA. Wow. And yet: https://abc7news.com/san-jose-water-california-drought-conservation/10965409/ https://abc7news.com/san-jose-water-california-drought-conse... "Whaley said the [San Jose Water] company is asking customers to cutback 15-percent from their 2019 water use levels, and pay $7.13 in surcharges for every unit of water used beyond that amount."

toomuchtodo 5y ago

Desalination requires enormous amounts of energy (although California has large amounts of solar available, ~10GW continuous on most sunny days per ElectricityMap.org [1]), but also creates a high salinity brine that is toxic to most marine life that must be discharged somewhere to mix with existing ocean water. For drinking water, it could be done (at significant cost), with a shift to reclaimed water for landscaping needs. But it is absolutely untenable for agriculture. It's also likely that Hoover Dam's electrical generation output will need to be replaced, in some part, with battery backed utility scale solar (as Lake Mead's water level declines below turbine intake at 950 feet; current water level is ~1050 feet [2]). We've known for over 100 years Western development was unsustainable (due to water) when the Colorado River Compact was originally formed [3] [4], and it was done anyway. [1] https://i.imgur.com/yIoTgJi.png https://i.imgur.com/yIoTgJi.png (sourced from https://app.electricitymap.org/zone/US-CAL-CISO?wind=false&solar=false https://app.electricitymap.org/zone/US-CAL-CISO?wind=false&s...) [2] https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/148758/lake-mead-drops-to-a-record-low https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/148758/lake-mead-dr... [3] https://www.usbr.gov/lc/region/pao/pdfiles/crcompct.pdf https://www.usbr.gov/lc/region/pao/pdfiles/crcompct.pdf [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27909108 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27909108