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The criticisms in this article are all valid. However, Russia is the one who has surrounded Ukraine with 100,000 troops, tanks, helicopters, and equipment. Th

The criticisms in this article are all valid. However, Russia is the one who has surrounded Ukraine with 100,000 troops, tanks, helicopters, and equipment. The worst we can say about the media in the US is that they seem perversely and disgustingly excited that this is happening. Still, I don't consider this disturbing behavior to be "pushing for war." The US media has no control over Russia.

watwut 5y ago
Yeah. War is going to happen and Russia is the one who wanted it and made it happen. The question is whether against Ukraine or Ukraine+someone.
- dmix 5y ago
  This could easily be a diplomatic chess piece like how North Korea spent the last 3 decades saber rattling about ICBMs. By making withdrawing troops become the primary interest, all of the other things that threatened their power become de-prioritized (ie, pushback against their existing powergrabs in Crimea/east Ukraine, intervention in Syria, Putins power in general, etc). Everyone knows North Korea doing anything to South Korea would be suicide. Russia knows there's far more to lose as well. Yet they could solidify their existing gains by keeping an even worse option on the table. It's modern authoritarian bully politics 101, especially in an era where landwars are rare, unless they are asymmetric. NATO basically has to react in this game (the media's unquestioning obedience is a different question).
- wiseowise 5y ago
  Why would Russia want war?
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > Why would Russia want war? Russia overtly wants a sphere of influence that includes (among other neighbors) Ukraine, and Ukraine isn’t voluntary giving in to it's desire for that, so Russia keeps waging war and taking bits of Ukraine. Ultimately, that obviously ends with Russia taking the whole country to achieve that goal, unless it gives it up. Russia would rather have surrender without further invasion (it's too late for “without war”), but it's also clearly willing to fight an escalating war to achieve it's goals.
eloff 5y ago
I think that there's another angle here too. That Putin made demands of NATO publicly and NATO rejected them completely just as publicly has backed him into a corner. Perhaps he only meant to bluff to extract concessions in the beginning, but now there's no way out without looking weak. I think he has to at least make a symbolic invasion now for political reasons. I feel very sorry for the Ukrainians caught up in this game, as they don't seem to have a win condition, and they're the ones going to pay the ultimate price.
- hellisothers 5y ago
  Putin made demands of NATO yet it was NATO that backed him into a corner? Seems like you’re removing all agency from Putin in this situation.
  - everybodyknows 5y ago
    > it was NATO that backed him into a corner? False characterization of OP's premise, which was: "Putin made demands of NATO publicly and NATO rejected them completely just as publicly"
irthomasthomas 5y ago
Russia has been conducting this exercise every year for the past decade. E.G. 2020: Russian Military Exercises Near Ukraine. 100 to 120 thousand troops. No WW3, no threat of nukes. https://empr.media/news/conflict-zone/russian-military-exercises-near-ukraine-border/ https://empr.media/news/conflict-zone/russian-military-exerc... Edit: I looked up some of the others 2016 https://www.vox.com/2016/9/1/12729426/russia-troops-ukraine-border https://www.vox.com/2016/9/1/12729426/russia-troops-ukraine-... 2017 https://www.militarytimes.com/news/2017/09/13/whats-putin-up-to-the-russian-military-buildup-on-europes-border-raises-tension/ https://www.militarytimes.com/news/2017/09/13/whats-putin-up... 2018 https://archive.is/0gqL0 https://archive.is/0gqL0 2019 https://radiolemberg.com/en/ua-articles/ua-allarticles/almost-100-000-russian-troops-poised-for-offensive-against-ukraine https://radiolemberg.com/en/ua-articles/ua-allarticles/almos... So, this action from Russia is completely normal, and does not usually trigger nuclear war.
- parkingrift 5y ago
  If Russia does this every year then there is nothing to be concerned about. The US media isn't going to push the US into a preemptive strike. ...but it is not at all normal for the US to evacuate the embassy in Ukraine.
  - caeril 5y ago
    > The US media isn't going to push the US into a preemptive strike. Then you know nothing about the history of the US media.
    - cassianoleal 5y ago
      I recommend the Blowback podcast. [0] It really puts the role of the media in starting, or at least helping setting the stage and muster public support for wars, into perspective. [0] https://blowback.show/ https://blowback.show/
    - parkingrift 5y ago
      Oh come now. We’re not talking about things that have happened. We’re talking about provoking world war 3. No matter what you think of the US media, they aren’t capable of provoking the US into starting a world war.
yucky 5y ago
>The worst we can say about the media in the US is that they seem perversely and disgustingly excited that this is happening. As bad as that possibility is, it's not the worst. The worst would be that the US Government is using its media assets to push this narrative. Judging by the past history of Jake Sullivan in regards to Ukraine/Russia [1], this seems more likely. [1] - https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2021/09/23/biden_security_adviser_sullivan_tied_to_16_clinton_plan_to_co-opt_cia_and_fbi_to_tar_trump_795498.html https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2021/09/23/...

watwut 5y ago

Yeah. War is going to happen and Russia is the one who wanted it and made it happen. The question is whether against Ukraine or Ukraine+someone.

dmix 5y ago
This could easily be a diplomatic chess piece like how North Korea spent the last 3 decades saber rattling about ICBMs. By making withdrawing troops become the primary interest, all of the other things that threatened their power become de-prioritized (ie, pushback against their existing powergrabs in Crimea/east Ukraine, intervention in Syria, Putins power in general, etc). Everyone knows North Korea doing anything to South Korea would be suicide. Russia knows there's far more to lose as well. Yet they could solidify their existing gains by keeping an even worse option on the table. It's modern authoritarian bully politics 101, especially in an era where landwars are rare, unless they are asymmetric. NATO basically has to react in this game (the media's unquestioning obedience is a different question).
wiseowise 5y ago
Why would Russia want war?
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Why would Russia want war? Russia overtly wants a sphere of influence that includes (among other neighbors) Ukraine, and Ukraine isn’t voluntary giving in to it's desire for that, so Russia keeps waging war and taking bits of Ukraine. Ultimately, that obviously ends with Russia taking the whole country to achieve that goal, unless it gives it up. Russia would rather have surrender without further invasion (it's too late for “without war”), but it's also clearly willing to fight an escalating war to achieve it's goals.

eloff 5y ago

I think that there's another angle here too. That Putin made demands of NATO publicly and NATO rejected them completely just as publicly has backed him into a corner. Perhaps he only meant to bluff to extract concessions in the beginning, but now there's no way out without looking weak. I think he has to at least make a symbolic invasion now for political reasons. I feel very sorry for the Ukrainians caught up in this game, as they don't seem to have a win condition, and they're the ones going to pay the ultimate price.

hellisothers 5y ago
Putin made demands of NATO yet it was NATO that backed him into a corner? Seems like you’re removing all agency from Putin in this situation.
- everybodyknows 5y ago
  > it was NATO that backed him into a corner? False characterization of OP's premise, which was: "Putin made demands of NATO publicly and NATO rejected them completely just as publicly"

irthomasthomas 5y ago

Russia has been conducting this exercise every year for the past decade. E.G. 2020: Russian Military Exercises Near Ukraine. 100 to 120 thousand troops. No WW3, no threat of nukes. https://empr.media/news/conflict-zone/russian-military-exercises-near-ukraine-border/ https://empr.media/news/conflict-zone/russian-military-exerc... Edit: I looked up some of the others 2016 https://www.vox.com/2016/9/1/12729426/russia-troops-ukraine-border https://www.vox.com/2016/9/1/12729426/russia-troops-ukraine-... 2017 https://www.militarytimes.com/news/2017/09/13/whats-putin-up-to-the-russian-military-buildup-on-europes-border-raises-tension/ https://www.militarytimes.com/news/2017/09/13/whats-putin-up... 2018 https://archive.is/0gqL0 https://archive.is/0gqL0 2019 https://radiolemberg.com/en/ua-articles/ua-allarticles/almost-100-000-russian-troops-poised-for-offensive-against-ukraine https://radiolemberg.com/en/ua-articles/ua-allarticles/almos... So, this action from Russia is completely normal, and does not usually trigger nuclear war.

parkingrift 5y ago
If Russia does this every year then there is nothing to be concerned about. The US media isn't going to push the US into a preemptive strike. ...but it is not at all normal for the US to evacuate the embassy in Ukraine.
- caeril 5y ago
  > The US media isn't going to push the US into a preemptive strike. Then you know nothing about the history of the US media.
  - cassianoleal 5y ago
    I recommend the Blowback podcast. [0] It really puts the role of the media in starting, or at least helping setting the stage and muster public support for wars, into perspective. [0] https://blowback.show/ https://blowback.show/
  - parkingrift 5y ago
    Oh come now. We’re not talking about things that have happened. We’re talking about provoking world war 3. No matter what you think of the US media, they aren’t capable of provoking the US into starting a world war.

yucky 5y ago

>The worst we can say about the media in the US is that they seem perversely and disgustingly excited that this is happening. As bad as that possibility is, it's not the worst. The worst would be that the US Government is using its media assets to push this narrative. Judging by the past history of Jake Sullivan in regards to Ukraine/Russia [1], this seems more likely. [1] - https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2021/09/23/biden_security_adviser_sullivan_tied_to_16_clinton_plan_to_co-opt_cia_and_fbi_to_tar_trump_795498.html https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2021/09/23/...