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There will always be some opportunistic groups looking to cause more mayhem in chaotic situations like this. These protests have been literally “mostly peaceful

There will always be some opportunistic groups looking to cause more mayhem in chaotic situations like this. These protests have been literally “mostly peaceful” no?

cf100clunk 5y ago
I got voted down for saying what you did but in a more terse, direct fashion. Too much heat in here with one-day HNers, yourself excepted.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  one-day HN'ers can't downvote (400 Karma threshold)
ceejayoz 5y ago
> These protests have been literally “mostly peaceful” no? That's fair, yes. Economically disruptive, but largely peaceful. I'd wager the left isn't going to pass "it's legal to run over protesters" in response to these, though. https://www.vox.com/2021/4/25/22367019/gop-laws-oklahoma-iowa-florida-floyd-blm-protests-police https://www.vox.com/2021/4/25/22367019/gop-laws-oklahoma-iow...
- manquer 5y ago
  Sleep deprivation and continuous noise is considered torture under Geneva Convention and by the U.N.[1] and Canadian law[2]. U.S. and others have been condemned heavily for using such techniques and U.S. has since stopped (at least officially) even in black ops places like Gitmo. Protests and blockade are one thing, continuous noise in areas where people live and work is not peaceful . [1] https://tbinternet.ohchr.org/Treaties/CAT/Shared%20Documents/UKR/CAT_C_UKR_CO_6_18892_E.pdf https://tbinternet.ohchr.org/Treaties/CAT/Shared%20Documents... [2] https://www.macleans.ca/opinion/yes-sleep-deprivation-is-torture/ https://www.macleans.ca/opinion/yes-sleep-deprivation-is-tor...
  - throwaway894345 5y ago
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      If your noisy neighbor was setting of a blowhorn with a high duty cycle for multiple days with the express intent to cause harm to you, it would probably be fair to call that some form of assault.
      - throwaway894345 5y ago
        > with the express intent to cause harm Citation?
        sudosysgen 5y ago
        Do I need a citation that people honking to cause a distrubance intended to disturb?
        throwaway894345 5y ago
        > Do I need a citation that people honking to cause a distrubance intended to disturb? Wow, that's quite a comment and a remarkably transparent backpedaling from "intent to cause harm".
        sudosysgen 5y ago
        From the Merriam Webster, Disturbance, 2) : noisy or violent activity : commotion
        throwaway894345 5y ago
        Good grief. Yes, a disturbance can refer to noise or violence, but that doesn't imply that a noise is violence. This is the lowest quality argumentation I've seen on this site for a while.
- throwaway894345 5y ago
  From your own overtly biased link: > Under the new law, an Oklahoma driver will no longer be liable for striking — or even killing — a person if the driver is “fleeing from a riot ... under a reasonable belief that fleeing was necessary to protect the motor vehicle operator from serious injury or death.” Super disingenuous to characterize that as "it's legal to run over protesters".
  - 8note 5y ago
    The person you drove over doesn't get to give an alternative story to this necessity, nor do they have to be somebody that you're fleeing from. I don't think it's reasonable to defend yourself from somebody by going up to a passer by and shooting them
    - throwaway894345 5y ago
      > The person you drove over doesn't get to give an alternative story to this necessity, nor do they have to be somebody that you're fleeing from. Agreed. This is one of many reasons why rioting is awful—it creates these dangerous scenarios where ordinary people have to make split second life-or-death decisions. Frankly, I wish rioting was prosecuted more aggressively rather than blaming people who are stuck in situations where they have to defend themselves (“but they don’t need to be there!” <- people have the right to assemble in public, but rioters don’t have the right to create dangerous situations). > I don't think it's reasonable to defend yourself from somebody by going up to a passer by and shooting them This is an embarrassingly obvious straw man. No one is arguing for the right to kill a third party to defend oneself against another, the argument is that people should be given a pass if they accidentally hit someone while fleeing for their life. It’s one thing to disagree with that, but it’s an entirely different thing to lie about the law or the argument.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    Never seen a cop get off with "I feared for my life", eh?
    - 5y ago
kerneloftruth 5y ago
Yes. I've seen no evidence of stores being looted, businesses burned, or anybody throwing rocks at police -- all of which were common in 2020 BLM protests.
- paulmd 5y ago
  Well, now you have. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-police-arson-investigation-fire-apartment-lobby-1.6342347 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-police-arson-in... https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/coutts-protest-blockade-arrests-rcmp-monday-1.6351112 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/coutts-protest-blocka... As for the police - helps that a lot of them were tacitly helping the rioters. As usual, giving them fuel and supplies, and ignoring clear-cut violations of the law. Why throw rocks at an ally? Toronto and other cities may have shut them down, but the Ottawa cops were pretty much assisting. Not really a surprise, cops are pretty right-wing aligned in general.
  - throwaway894345 5y ago
    From your own link: > Police have not confirmed any link between their investigation into this incident and the ongoing convoy protest. Anyway, there's a pretty considerable difference between whatever this was and the images of burned down neighborhoods in the US. https://www.google.com/search?q=kenosha+aftermath&client=safari&rls=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiOmcP9_v_1AhXVJEQIHS_uCZwQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1717&bih=1015&dpr=2 https://www.google.com/search?q=kenosha+aftermath&client=saf...
  - adolph 5y ago
    On the footage, he described seeing two individuals lighting a fire in the lobby shortly after 5 a.m. Sunday. After the suspects leave, another individual is seen coming into view and quickly extinguishing the fire near the elevators, Munoz said. ... Police have not confirmed any link between their investigation into this incident and the ongoing convoy protest.
karpierz 5y ago
Depends on how you define peaceful; if you consider it peaceful to make enough noise in a neighbourhood such that thousands cannot sleep there for weeks, then yes.
tablespoon 5y ago
>> This type of revelation will likely be commonplace in the days/weeks ahead as militant extremists are exposed. > There will always be some opportunistic groups looking to cause more mayhem in chaotic situations like this. These protests have been literally “mostly peaceful” no? Exactly. Didn't "Bugaloo Bois" try to hijack the Black Lives Matter protests? I think it's important to be careful, and not try to paint an entire protest movement with a small unreasonable minority that may be within or adjacent to it.
- mikeyouse 5y ago
  Several of the most prominent acts of violence during the BLM protests were indeed Boogaloo Boys (murders of multiple police officers in Oakland, arson at a police precinct in Minneapolis, shooting up a different precinct with an AK-47 while shouting "Justice for Floyd!")
  - vorpalhex 5y ago
    Are we in the same reality? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/man-pleads-guilty-minneapolis-precinct-arson-after-george-floyd-death-n1255424 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/man-pleads-guilty-minne...
    - mikeyouse 5y ago
      Yep.. that was the 4th person arrested.. Here’s one of the others; > According to the complaint, Hunter would later post multiple messages on Facebook bragging of his actions in Minneapolis on the night of 28 May and morning of 29 May, writing, “I set fire to that precinct with the Black community,” and, “My mom would call the FBI if she knew.” “I’ve burned police stations with Black Panthers in Minneapolis,” he claimed in one message, and in another, “The BLM protesters in Minneapolis loved me.” https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/23/texas-boogaloo-boi-minneapolis-police-building-george-floyd https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/...
      - vorpalhex 5y ago

There will always be some opportunistic groups looking to cause more mayhem in chaotic situations like this. These protests have been literally “mostly peaceful” no?

cf100clunk 5y ago

I got voted down for saying what you did but in a more terse, direct fashion. Too much heat in here with one-day HNers, yourself excepted.

jacquesm 5y ago
one-day HN'ers can't downvote (400 Karma threshold)

ceejayoz 5y ago

> These protests have been literally “mostly peaceful” no? That's fair, yes. Economically disruptive, but largely peaceful. I'd wager the left isn't going to pass "it's legal to run over protesters" in response to these, though. https://www.vox.com/2021/4/25/22367019/gop-laws-oklahoma-iowa-florida-floyd-blm-protests-police https://www.vox.com/2021/4/25/22367019/gop-laws-oklahoma-iow...

manquer 5y ago
Sleep deprivation and continuous noise is considered torture under Geneva Convention and by the U.N.[1] and Canadian law[2]. U.S. and others have been condemned heavily for using such techniques and U.S. has since stopped (at least officially) even in black ops places like Gitmo. Protests and blockade are one thing, continuous noise in areas where people live and work is not peaceful . [1] https://tbinternet.ohchr.org/Treaties/CAT/Shared%20Documents/UKR/CAT_C_UKR_CO_6_18892_E.pdf https://tbinternet.ohchr.org/Treaties/CAT/Shared%20Documents... [2] https://www.macleans.ca/opinion/yes-sleep-deprivation-is-torture/ https://www.macleans.ca/opinion/yes-sleep-deprivation-is-tor...
- throwaway894345 5y ago
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    If your noisy neighbor was setting of a blowhorn with a high duty cycle for multiple days with the express intent to cause harm to you, it would probably be fair to call that some form of assault.
    - throwaway894345 5y ago
      > with the express intent to cause harm Citation?
      - sudosysgen 5y ago
        Do I need a citation that people honking to cause a distrubance intended to disturb?
        throwaway894345 5y ago
        > Do I need a citation that people honking to cause a distrubance intended to disturb? Wow, that's quite a comment and a remarkably transparent backpedaling from "intent to cause harm".
        sudosysgen 5y ago
        From the Merriam Webster, Disturbance, 2) : noisy or violent activity : commotion
        throwaway894345 5y ago
        Good grief. Yes, a disturbance can refer to noise or violence, but that doesn't imply that a noise is violence. This is the lowest quality argumentation I've seen on this site for a while.
throwaway894345 5y ago
From your own overtly biased link: > Under the new law, an Oklahoma driver will no longer be liable for striking — or even killing — a person if the driver is “fleeing from a riot ... under a reasonable belief that fleeing was necessary to protect the motor vehicle operator from serious injury or death.” Super disingenuous to characterize that as "it's legal to run over protesters".
- 8note 5y ago
  The person you drove over doesn't get to give an alternative story to this necessity, nor do they have to be somebody that you're fleeing from. I don't think it's reasonable to defend yourself from somebody by going up to a passer by and shooting them
  - throwaway894345 5y ago
    > The person you drove over doesn't get to give an alternative story to this necessity, nor do they have to be somebody that you're fleeing from. Agreed. This is one of many reasons why rioting is awful—it creates these dangerous scenarios where ordinary people have to make split second life-or-death decisions. Frankly, I wish rioting was prosecuted more aggressively rather than blaming people who are stuck in situations where they have to defend themselves (“but they don’t need to be there!” <- people have the right to assemble in public, but rioters don’t have the right to create dangerous situations). > I don't think it's reasonable to defend yourself from somebody by going up to a passer by and shooting them This is an embarrassingly obvious straw man. No one is arguing for the right to kill a third party to defend oneself against another, the argument is that people should be given a pass if they accidentally hit someone while fleeing for their life. It’s one thing to disagree with that, but it’s an entirely different thing to lie about the law or the argument.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  Never seen a cop get off with "I feared for my life", eh?
  - 5y ago

kerneloftruth 5y ago

Yes. I've seen no evidence of stores being looted, businesses burned, or anybody throwing rocks at police -- all of which were common in 2020 BLM protests.

paulmd 5y ago
Well, now you have. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-police-arson-investigation-fire-apartment-lobby-1.6342347 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-police-arson-in... https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/coutts-protest-blockade-arrests-rcmp-monday-1.6351112 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/coutts-protest-blocka... As for the police - helps that a lot of them were tacitly helping the rioters. As usual, giving them fuel and supplies, and ignoring clear-cut violations of the law. Why throw rocks at an ally? Toronto and other cities may have shut them down, but the Ottawa cops were pretty much assisting. Not really a surprise, cops are pretty right-wing aligned in general.
- throwaway894345 5y ago
  From your own link: > Police have not confirmed any link between their investigation into this incident and the ongoing convoy protest. Anyway, there's a pretty considerable difference between whatever this was and the images of burned down neighborhoods in the US. https://www.google.com/search?q=kenosha+aftermath&client=safari&rls=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiOmcP9_v_1AhXVJEQIHS_uCZwQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1717&bih=1015&dpr=2 https://www.google.com/search?q=kenosha+aftermath&client=saf...
- adolph 5y ago
  On the footage, he described seeing two individuals lighting a fire in the lobby shortly after 5 a.m. Sunday. After the suspects leave, another individual is seen coming into view and quickly extinguishing the fire near the elevators, Munoz said. ... Police have not confirmed any link between their investigation into this incident and the ongoing convoy protest.

karpierz 5y ago

Depends on how you define peaceful; if you consider it peaceful to make enough noise in a neighbourhood such that thousands cannot sleep there for weeks, then yes.

tablespoon 5y ago

>> This type of revelation will likely be commonplace in the days/weeks ahead as militant extremists are exposed. > There will always be some opportunistic groups looking to cause more mayhem in chaotic situations like this. These protests have been literally “mostly peaceful” no? Exactly. Didn't "Bugaloo Bois" try to hijack the Black Lives Matter protests? I think it's important to be careful, and not try to paint an entire protest movement with a small unreasonable minority that may be within or adjacent to it.

mikeyouse 5y ago
Several of the most prominent acts of violence during the BLM protests were indeed Boogaloo Boys (murders of multiple police officers in Oakland, arson at a police precinct in Minneapolis, shooting up a different precinct with an AK-47 while shouting "Justice for Floyd!")
- vorpalhex 5y ago
  Are we in the same reality? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/man-pleads-guilty-minneapolis-precinct-arson-after-george-floyd-death-n1255424 https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/man-pleads-guilty-minne...
  - mikeyouse 5y ago
    Yep.. that was the 4th person arrested.. Here’s one of the others; > According to the complaint, Hunter would later post multiple messages on Facebook bragging of his actions in Minneapolis on the night of 28 May and morning of 29 May, writing, “I set fire to that precinct with the Black community,” and, “My mom would call the FBI if she knew.” “I’ve burned police stations with Black Panthers in Minneapolis,” he claimed in one message, and in another, “The BLM protesters in Minneapolis loved me.” https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/23/texas-boogaloo-boi-minneapolis-police-building-george-floyd https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/...
    - vorpalhex 5y ago