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The real (and often downvoted) answer is that Mozilla compromised on their core values. A "death by a thousand cuts", as it were. For me, it started back when

The real (and often downvoted) answer is that Mozilla compromised on their core values. A "death by a thousand cuts", as it were. For me, it started back when "sponsored tiles" were first announced in 2014. On the surface it was obviously advertisements, but many defenders tried to argue that it was a "good thing" Then there was the proprietary Pocket extension baked into the browser with no easy removal. Again, many defenders tried to argue it was a "good thing" Then the "studies" channel was used to push a Mr Robot ad. It's unclear how it was aligned with the values, but defenders tried to argue it was a "good thing". They partnered with Cliqz to collect data and make recommendations. Again, defenders tried to argue it was a "good thing" They partnered with Booking.com to push advertisements, going so far as to argue that they didn't receive any monetary compensation and that it was just a "social experiment". Again, defenders tried to argue it was a "good thing" This is just a sampling of the events in the last 8 years (sponsored tiles was 2014). Every single time, they may have received some sort of benefit, but a number of users who bought into firefox for the security and privacy aspects ... felt betrayed and left. Because if it isn't about the privacy, what is the USP of firefox? "Not google" is only a small part of the user base.

selfhoster11 5y ago
I fully agree. If the consistent messaging is meant to be "use this browser, it's private and respects you", but it's then compromised by advertising and data abuse, it seems hypocritical and damages adoption of the browser.
asoneth 5y ago
I don't recall very many people defending Mozilla on the Mr Robot or the Booking.com missteps. Even current and ex-Mozillans lambasted them for those. I recall a few people defending the sponsored titles (or half-hearted defenses about how it's bad but not that bad since you can turn them off) but those defenses seemed to be largely drowned out by the overwhelmingly negative response. The only of those that I recall having anything close to "many defenders" was the Pocket integration.
dralley 5y ago
> The real (and often downvoted) answer is that Mozilla compromised on their core values. A "death by a thousand cuts", as it were. I expect it's downvoted because it's laughable. 99% of browser users don't give a shit about those things. If a poll were to be taken of the HN users who switched to Chrome, I doubt even a quarter would cite that as the reason. It was indeed a death by a thousand cuts, but the thousand cuts were * popup advertisements for Chrome on the frontpage of the most visited website on the planet * Google paying off Adobe, AVG, Avast and others to make their installers include Chrome using disgusting dark patterns * Android, the collapse of desktop browsing in comparsion to mobile browsing, and people that will just default to using the same browser on their laptop/desktop as on their phone * Netflix DRM that didn't work on Firefox for a few months * Youtube, Google Meet and Google Docs refusing to work properly on Firefox * The word "Google" becoming as synonymous with simply using the internet as the internet explorer icon was in the 2000s * Chrome was and to some extent still is legitimately snappier than Firefox
- jozvolskyef 5y ago
  > * Youtube, Google Meet and Google Docs refusing to work properly on Firefox One vote for Google Meet being the reason. I didn't want me dropping out of meetings and rejoining in a different browser to become a regular thing.
  - Ironlink 5y ago
    I use Google Meet with Firefox on my M1 Mac every day. The only thing that doesn't work for me is camera backgrounds. Would be nice to be able to share audio when presenting, but I almost never present.
    - jozvolskyef 5y ago
      Is sharing audio output even supported by Meet? By the way, I'm on linux. Searching "firefox google meet linux site:reddit.com" suggests it wasn't just me.
- selfhoster11 5y ago

selfhoster11 5y ago

I fully agree. If the consistent messaging is meant to be "use this browser, it's private and respects you", but it's then compromised by advertising and data abuse, it seems hypocritical and damages adoption of the browser.

asoneth 5y ago

I don't recall very many people defending Mozilla on the Mr Robot or the Booking.com missteps. Even current and ex-Mozillans lambasted them for those. I recall a few people defending the sponsored titles (or half-hearted defenses about how it's bad but not that bad since you can turn them off) but those defenses seemed to be largely drowned out by the overwhelmingly negative response. The only of those that I recall having anything close to "many defenders" was the Pocket integration.

dralley 5y ago

> The real (and often downvoted) answer is that Mozilla compromised on their core values. A "death by a thousand cuts", as it were. I expect it's downvoted because it's laughable. 99% of browser users don't give a shit about those things. If a poll were to be taken of the HN users who switched to Chrome, I doubt even a quarter would cite that as the reason. It was indeed a death by a thousand cuts, but the thousand cuts were * popup advertisements for Chrome on the frontpage of the most visited website on the planet * Google paying off Adobe, AVG, Avast and others to make their installers include Chrome using disgusting dark patterns * Android, the collapse of desktop browsing in comparsion to mobile browsing, and people that will just default to using the same browser on their laptop/desktop as on their phone * Netflix DRM that didn't work on Firefox for a few months * Youtube, Google Meet and Google Docs refusing to work properly on Firefox * The word "Google" becoming as synonymous with simply using the internet as the internet explorer icon was in the 2000s * Chrome was and to some extent still is legitimately snappier than Firefox

jozvolskyef 5y ago
> * Youtube, Google Meet and Google Docs refusing to work properly on Firefox One vote for Google Meet being the reason. I didn't want me dropping out of meetings and rejoining in a different browser to become a regular thing.
- Ironlink 5y ago
  I use Google Meet with Firefox on my M1 Mac every day. The only thing that doesn't work for me is camera backgrounds. Would be nice to be able to share audio when presenting, but I almost never present.
  - jozvolskyef 5y ago
    Is sharing audio output even supported by Meet? By the way, I'm on linux. Searching "firefox google meet linux site:reddit.com" suggests it wasn't just me.
selfhoster11 5y ago