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> chargebacks. > You can dispute any transaction even on a debit card if the merchant is being uncooperative or you haven't received the goods/services promise

by FabHK 5y ago

> chargebacks. > You can dispute any transaction even on a debit card if the merchant is being uncooperative or you haven't received the goods/services promised. You can? In the Netherlands? Which is what this is about?

Nextgrid 5y ago
Yes you can, worldwide with a Visa, MasterCard or Amex. Most of these card networks have consumer-friendly rules that merchants have to abide by if they want to process payments. Each country can have its own laws on top of that (such as Section 75 protection in the UK for credit cards only) but the basic dispute scheme is managed by the card networks.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  Most of the benefits of credit card networks don't apply in the EU. Like the purchase insurance and easy chargeback are not easy at all here. My bank stopped the insurance a few years ago. I think it's just that they don't make any money (their profits mainly evolve around interest and late fees), as mostly everyone here pays their CC bill on time and has only one card. There's also hardly any loyalty programs to speak of. I've never seen anyone do cashbacks and with the loyalty points you'll be lucky to get a towel set a year :P The whole situation is very different from the US. Most people only even have the debit version of the card but even for the credit version it's like this. I still have both because some US companies don't accept the debit version of my card. Though it's becoming much less of a problem and I haven't used the card in years, will probably cancel it as it counts as an active loan.
  - Krisando 5y ago
    > Like the purchase insurance and easy chargeback are not easy at all here. For credit cards, that's definately a thing. But, most people use debit cards that do not offer protections.
    - Nextgrid 5y ago
      Credit cards have some protection by law in some countries. But any Visa or Mastercard will have some sort of protection against fraud and malicious merchants. That protection is as far as I know universal regardless of where you are located and will be more than enough to deal with merchants who don't honor cancellation requests, grossly misrepresent their products/services or outright don't provide the product/service you paid for.
- melony 5y ago
  Those payment networks are another relic that needs to be gotten rid of.
  - ThunderSizzle 5y ago
    Perhaps, but there are several advantages those payment networks provide me: 1) Security. I'm not using my money when I use a credit card. If someone stole a credit card, my bank account is not at risk in the same way if I lost a debit card or a check. 2) Fraud protection. On top of not using my own money, if someone does spend with a credit card, I'm protected much better than if it was my own money. Disputes and fraud on bank-issued debit cards tie up my money, meaning I can't pay my bills. Fraud and disputes on credit cards tie up some of my credit, and is not interest-bearing while it's under review. 3) Grace period. I basically have 45-60 days from when I purchase something to when I have to pay the statement balance that charge is part of. This gives me 45-60 days of cash that _if I needed to use_, I could. Granted, that would typically be in an emergency-type situation. That means if I have a flat tire, and my rent is due, and I didn't happen to have the cash ready that second, I don't need to make a decision (yet) or get a payday loan. I can figure out what to do over the next 45 days while not missing rent. 4) Interest. While almost every credit card out there has predatory interests, you can get low-interest credit cards, which can help in a tight squeeze. While it might be worse than a personal loan (depending), other options, such as a payday loan or even lay-away, are very much worse. 5) Cashback & rewards. I can easily get 4% cash back average for purchases I make, without paying any more or facing any inconvenience. Sometimes you run into a 3% credit charge, which I'm okay with if I'm getting similar cash back or the above protections. If you can figure out a system that gives me all that and can be used nearly everywhere, then I'm all ears. But any new system needs to address the above.
    - KptMarchewa 5y ago
      The fraud is only a problem because of an ancient model where snooping on a bunch of numbers printed on a card can be used to verify any random transaction. Cashback is only a thing because those payment providers are taxing all transactions in the US to an unreasonable level, which just raises overall prices. Great business model though, take 5% to give back 3% and the customer is happy about that.

by FabHK 5y ago

Nextgrid 5y ago

Yes you can, worldwide with a Visa, MasterCard or Amex. Most of these card networks have consumer-friendly rules that merchants have to abide by if they want to process payments. Each country can have its own laws on top of that (such as Section 75 protection in the UK for credit cards only) but the basic dispute scheme is managed by the card networks.

GekkePrutser 5y ago
Most of the benefits of credit card networks don't apply in the EU. Like the purchase insurance and easy chargeback are not easy at all here. My bank stopped the insurance a few years ago. I think it's just that they don't make any money (their profits mainly evolve around interest and late fees), as mostly everyone here pays their CC bill on time and has only one card. There's also hardly any loyalty programs to speak of. I've never seen anyone do cashbacks and with the loyalty points you'll be lucky to get a towel set a year :P The whole situation is very different from the US. Most people only even have the debit version of the card but even for the credit version it's like this. I still have both because some US companies don't accept the debit version of my card. Though it's becoming much less of a problem and I haven't used the card in years, will probably cancel it as it counts as an active loan.
- Krisando 5y ago
  > Like the purchase insurance and easy chargeback are not easy at all here. For credit cards, that's definately a thing. But, most people use debit cards that do not offer protections.
  - Nextgrid 5y ago
    Credit cards have some protection by law in some countries. But any Visa or Mastercard will have some sort of protection against fraud and malicious merchants. That protection is as far as I know universal regardless of where you are located and will be more than enough to deal with merchants who don't honor cancellation requests, grossly misrepresent their products/services or outright don't provide the product/service you paid for.
melony 5y ago
Those payment networks are another relic that needs to be gotten rid of.
- ThunderSizzle 5y ago
  Perhaps, but there are several advantages those payment networks provide me: 1) Security. I'm not using my money when I use a credit card. If someone stole a credit card, my bank account is not at risk in the same way if I lost a debit card or a check. 2) Fraud protection. On top of not using my own money, if someone does spend with a credit card, I'm protected much better than if it was my own money. Disputes and fraud on bank-issued debit cards tie up my money, meaning I can't pay my bills. Fraud and disputes on credit cards tie up some of my credit, and is not interest-bearing while it's under review. 3) Grace period. I basically have 45-60 days from when I purchase something to when I have to pay the statement balance that charge is part of. This gives me 45-60 days of cash that _if I needed to use_, I could. Granted, that would typically be in an emergency-type situation. That means if I have a flat tire, and my rent is due, and I didn't happen to have the cash ready that second, I don't need to make a decision (yet) or get a payday loan. I can figure out what to do over the next 45 days while not missing rent. 4) Interest. While almost every credit card out there has predatory interests, you can get low-interest credit cards, which can help in a tight squeeze. While it might be worse than a personal loan (depending), other options, such as a payday loan or even lay-away, are very much worse. 5) Cashback & rewards. I can easily get 4% cash back average for purchases I make, without paying any more or facing any inconvenience. Sometimes you run into a 3% credit charge, which I'm okay with if I'm getting similar cash back or the above protections. If you can figure out a system that gives me all that and can be used nearly everywhere, then I'm all ears. But any new system needs to address the above.
  - KptMarchewa 5y ago
    The fraud is only a problem because of an ancient model where snooping on a bunch of numbers printed on a card can be used to verify any random transaction. Cashback is only a thing because those payment providers are taxing all transactions in the US to an unreasonable level, which just raises overall prices. Great business model though, take 5% to give back 3% and the customer is happy about that.