9 ms·
Edward Snowden Says 'Media Pushing for War'
- nix23 5y agoCant make money with freedom...action is the the important stuff.
- vanusa 5y agoThere is nothing more grotesque than a media pushing for war. To say this about the media without making the same critique about the actions of the current leadership your host country -- which is very obviously the party doing the "pushing" here -- smacks of cognitive dissonance, or worse.
- hackerbeat 5y agoIt’s not like he can move someplace else. Also, he’s criticized the Russian government many times before.
- vanusa 5y agoAlso, he’s criticized the Russian government many times before. Which makes his current silence all the more telling.
- jjtheblunt 5y agoWhy doesn't NATO counter-threaten, perhaps, taking Saint Petersburg? Two can play the brinksmanship nonsense game, essentially.
- hirundo 5y ago"War is the health of the state." - Randolph Bourne s/state/media See "Yellow Journalism" and the Spanish-American War: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism#Origins:_Pulitzer_vs._Hearst https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_journalism#Origins:_Pul...
- adevx 5y agoI see this mostly coming from US and UK based news outlets, and of course the White House. I have this nagging feeling the US really wants a proxy war in Ukraine for whatever reason. It only needs a trigger, like the Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq. Whatever gets the ball rolling. I hope cooler heads will prevail.
- lkxijlewlf 5y agoWhat use is a war machine that is mostly idle? /sarcasm.
- runnerup 5y ago> It only needs a trigger, like the Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq. It’s really not the same at all. Even supposing the rest of what you said was true…all Russia needs to do is just: not invade a sovereign country. They don’t have to prove a negative. They just have to not use their military to invade. This isn’t an unfalsifiable causus belli like Iraqs WMDs.
- sschueller 5y agoThere are news hast currently talking about implementing sanctions already. Russia has not yet invaded but they are talking about imposing sanctions as of they did. At this point it probably doesn't even mater if Russia invades, according to these news channels Russia will be sanctioned. How do you find diplomatic solutions like that?
- caskstrength 5y agoCan you provide sources for any preemptive sanctions towards Russia? I only know about US Republican party initiative, but it was rejected by ruling party (Democrats).
- avgDev 5y agoIt is a threat to prevent Russia from invading Ukraine. I have not seen anything that Russia will be sanctioned even if they do not invade.
- slezyr 5y ago> Bloomberg even accidentally announced that Russia had invaded Ukraine (before apologizing). Well, they are not wrong here. They indeed did.
- nix23 5y agoJust a bit late for a real-time platform ;)
- wiseowise 5y agoWhen?
- viernullvier 5y agoAbout eight years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Ru...
- ramphastidae 5y ago2014 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_...
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- belter 5y agoAnd nothing more coincidental having a war start as soon as a pandemic finishes....
- irthomasthomas 5y agoMaybe it was not such a great idea to elect a TV show to your government, Ukraine? this is copied from an older comment The Ukrainian government has a... fascinating origin story. Ever hear people say "oh politicians are just actors reading lines"? Well, the President of Ukraine is an actual actual actor and comedian. His last acting job was the lead in a series that ran from 2015 to 2019, when he was elected president. The role? An ordinary guy rants online about government corruption, goes viral, and is elected President of Ukraine. That is not a mistake. The actual President of Ukraine was elected months after staring in a series as the unlikely President of Ukraine! https://imdb.com/name/nm3305952 https://imdb.com/name/nm3305952 Before his role as president, he and his comedy troupe, Kvartal 95, joked about the Maidan massacre. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33lY5LUPNbE&t=599s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33lY5LUPNbE&t=599s To win the election, Zelensky had to beat Yulia Tymoshenko. At the last minute, a third candidate entered the race, incidentally also called Y. Tymoshenko. So there where now 2 Y Tymoshenkos on the ballot, causing confusion. And a comedian won the race for president. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yulia_Tymoshenko#2019_presiden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yulia_Tymoshenko#2019_presiden... After being elected, Zelensky said "Don't worry. We will not have nepotism. " During the first year of Zelensky's presidency, more than 30 people who previously worked for, or with Kvartal 95 or its subsidiaries, received government positions. Some highlights from the current roster.. Serhiy Trofimov - First Deputy Head of the Administration (Head of the Office) of the President of Ukraine , formerly - Executive Producer of the Quarter 95 Studio; Yuriy Kostyuk - Deputy Head of the Administration (Head of the Office) of the President of Ukraine , screenwriter and author of the Studio "Quarter 95", creative producer of the series "Servant of the People" Serhiy Shefir - First Aide to President Zelensky, formerly Screenwriter, Producer and Director of Kvartal 95 Studio; It gets better.... Iryna Pobedonostseva - Director General of the Directorate for Information Policy of the Office of the President of Ukraine [30] , formerly (according to media reports) - Director of Development of the Studio "Quarter 95"; And my favourite... Ivan Bakanov - Head of the Security Service of Ukraine , formerly a lawyer and head of the Studio "Quarter 95"; https://uk-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/%D0%A1%D1%82% https://uk-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/%D0%A1%D1%82%... So, the government of Ukraine is made up of actors, screenwriters, and producers, who's work resembled a post-modern Ukrainian Monty Python. It is like John Cleese started the Monty Python party, got elected, and is now pushing for nuclear war.
- d23 5y ago> Noting that "the U.S. and NATO are pouring in high-tech weaponry and training up Ukraine's armed forces, making it a much more militarily capable foe," Gill wrote Friday that "from where the Russians are sitting, the deployment of billions of dollars worth of new U.S. and U.K. military hardware on its borders is a sign of escalation, rather than defense." I may just be ill-informed, so I'm completely willing to hear alternative views, but isn't this complete lunacy? Putin has been encroaching on the Ukraine and pushing to invade it for a while now, and has already invaded Georgia and Crimea, no? And he's been lining up the military on the border? How is the US and NATO mobilizing in response not defense? Is the claim here that Putin is genuinely afraid of the US invading Russia and simply operating in self-defense? Edit: I'm being downvoted, which seems strange, considering there hasn't been a substantive response to why this is false.
- Retric 5y agoIn politics inconvenient truths are generally ignored. Russia would prefer Ukraine to be easily crushed even if they don’t actually invade it’s useful for them to be surrounded by weaker countries. What they say is largely just for public consumption not political talks.
- irthomasthomas 5y agoRussia has been carrying out the same military exercise on its Ukraine border for the last decade. But NATO flooding Ukraine with arms is new, I think.
- d23 5y agoYou're saying there is no actual military buildup by Russia on the Ukraine border right now? Do you have evidence for this?
- tdeck 5y agoA different comment on this post provided some sources of prior buildups: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30337335 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30337335
- parkingrift 5y agoThe criticisms in this article are all valid. However, Russia is the one who has surrounded Ukraine with 100,000 troops, tanks, helicopters, and equipment. The worst we can say about the media in the US is that they seem perversely and disgustingly excited that this is happening. Still, I don't consider this disturbing behavior to be "pushing for war." The US media has no control over Russia.
- watwut 5y agoYeah. War is going to happen and Russia is the one who wanted it and made it happen. The question is whether against Ukraine or Ukraine+someone.
- dmix 5y agoThis could easily be a diplomatic chess piece like how North Korea spent the last 3 decades saber rattling about ICBMs. By making withdrawing troops become the primary interest, all of the other things that threatened their power become de-prioritized (ie, pushback against their existing powergrabs in Crimea/east Ukraine, intervention in Syria, Putins power in general, etc). Everyone knows North Korea doing anything to South Korea would be suicide. Russia knows there's far more to lose as well. Yet they could solidify their existing gains by keeping an even worse option on the table. It's modern authoritarian bully politics 101, especially in an era where landwars are rare, unless they are asymmetric. NATO basically has to react in this game (the media's unquestioning obedience is a different question).
- wiseowise 5y agoWhy would Russia want war?
- dragonwriter 5y ago> Why would Russia want war? Russia overtly wants a sphere of influence that includes (among other neighbors) Ukraine, and Ukraine isn’t voluntary giving in to it's desire for that, so Russia keeps waging war and taking bits of Ukraine. Ultimately, that obviously ends with Russia taking the whole country to achieve that goal, unless it gives it up. Russia would rather have surrender without further invasion (it's too late for “without war”), but it's also clearly willing to fight an escalating war to achieve it's goals.
- smrtinsert 5y agoAs he was granted Asylum by Russia I wouldn't consider him any sort of trusted source on this subject.
- nitwit005 5y agoThe narrative here is that the media is pro-war because they want the money from increased readership or viewership, and they're attacking anyone who wants peace by questioning their loyalty. I'm sure there are some hawkish editorials out there, but if that were really true, I should have run into it multiple times with all the coverage I've read. And strangely, no mention of the Russian media at all.
- avgDev 5y agoI don't get it. The media is reporting because there are 130k troops at the Ukraine border and many countries are telling their citizens to leave Ukraine and evacuating embassies. I'm sure US is very well aware of what is going on. Putin demanded that NATO promises Ukraine will never be allowed in. NATO stated they cannot do that. US sent military to Poland including several fighter jets. Things are serious. Why wouldn't media report on these things? I'm sure most people around the globe are hoping for a peaceful resolution. Russia can back off at any moment and the media reporting stops. WESTERN MEDIA cannot start this war. US will not make a move, NATO will not make a move. Any moves from western side will occur after Russia invades, but I doubt US wants to get involved.
- jayspell 5y agoI have a hard time understanding why NATO keeps expanding despite the fact that the threat it was created to guard against collapsed 30+ years ago. I find the Russian demand that NATO not expand to Ukraine fairly reasonable given the history they have with NATO. I look at this as similar to the US declaration that missiles in Cuba were not acceptable back in the 1960's.
- vanusa 5y agoI find the Russian demand that NATO not expand to Ukraine fairly reasonable given the history they have with NATO. Do you find the act of holding a knife against the throats of 40m people to persuade compliance with this demand to be also ... "fairly reasonable"?
- AnimalMuppet 5y agoBecause countries keep asking to be included in NATO. And why do they do that? Because they keep feeling threatened by Russia. And why do they feel threatened? Because Russia keeps doing things like invading Georgia and Ukraine. Countries flee to NATO for protection, if they can.
- xg15 5y agoOne quote from - I believe - Lawrow was how the US would react if Cuba or Venezuela were asking to be accepted into that anti-NATO Russia has apparently been building. Two wrongs don't make a right, but I think it's a valid question to ask if the argument is purely about the freedom of countries to make their own decisions.
- ephbit 5y agoJohn Mearsheimer spoke about this in this IMO quite entertaining talk in Jan 2019 here: The Great Delusion: Liberal Dreams and International Realities | SOAS University of London Mearsheimer's "NATO example" concerning Russia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni9rncx8ceA&t=2807 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni9rncx8ceA&t=2807 Earlier he also lists failed attempts to bring liberal democracy to other countries that ended in disaster and then states: > " .. the Americans have foolishly driven the Russians into the arms of the Chinese .." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni9rncx8ceA&t=2304 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni9rncx8ceA&t=2304
- credit_guy 5y agoCan someone clarify for me, if Snowden is an asylee in Russia, then why should I consider his opinion as neutral? Would he, under any circumstances, express the opposite view?
- caeril 5y agoCan someone clarify for me, if the US intelligence services and the Western mainstream media are domiciled in FVEY countries, why should I consider their opinions as neutral? Why would they, under any circumstances, express the opposite view?
- genmud 5y agoBecause it isn’t just in those countries reporting this and they have objectively much more freedom of the press compared to Russia? Also, Russia state media tends to lie… a lot. Like a lot, a lot.
- pradn 5y agoHe has a long history of speaking the truth even if has led to him upending his life (never being able to go back to his home country.) That's a good track record.
- credit_guy 5y agoI see. So you are saying he’s not being coerced right now. Because Putin does not have immense leverage on him. Got it.
- b215826 5y agoIf he's being coerced, he still has the option of saying nothing.
- hackerbeat 5y agoNo, he’s also criticized the Russian government many times before.