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> Our government just isn't that lawless Both recent and historical evidence does not really support this claim. It is very very very easy to find many example

> Our government just isn't that lawless Both recent and historical evidence does not really support this claim. It is very very very easy to find many examples of governments breaking the law for their own benefit. I don’t think it was the Canadian government either, but your logic does not seem good.

gpm 5y ago
Both the words "our government" (i.e. the current canadian government), and "that" are doing work. Neither examples of random governments committing significant crimes, nor of the Canadian government committing less significantly corrupt crimes, contradict the premise.
- rajin444 5y ago
  There is ample evidence of the Canadian government breaking the law for their own benefit and there is ample evidence for these occurrences being “significant”. And that’s not even taking into account that once trust is broken there are likely many more instances that aren’t known.
  - gpm 5y ago
    So by "significant" I'm excluding nonsense like this [1] where the government comes up with a creative (incorrect) interpretation of the law, and things like "a few rogue members of the government break the law" (e.g. [2]). Neither of those would explain a government entity hacking this website to leak this data in an attempt to benefit the government. I can't produce evidence that there isn't a history of actions like this, since my evidence really is just the lack of evidence. Thus I'd ask you to produce the "ample evidence" you claim exists. [1] https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/2020/09/04/ontario-court-rules-doug-fords-gas-pump-stickers-attacking-carbon-pricing-are-unconstitutional.html https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/2020/09/04/ontar... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/17/canada-covid-casino-police-stealing-watches-allegation https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/17/canada-covid-c...
    - lowkey 5y ago
      One relevant example of the Canadian gov breaking the law and lying about it until they were caught was the 2007 Security and Prosperity Partnership protests in Montebello Quebec. In that case the government used agent provocateurs (provoking agents) who were dressed as protesters while initiating violence to paint the protesters in a bad light. The linked Wikipedia article lists several other examples. [0] That said, I don't think the state was the responsible party for this attack. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur#Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur#Canada
908B64B197 5y ago
> It is very very very easy to find many examples of governments breaking the law for their own benefit. The current premier's father had feds planting explosive in people’s mailboxes [0] and tried to pin it on some political group he didn’t like back in the 70’s. Talk about a coincidence. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_controversies_involving_the_Royal_Canadian_Mounted_Police#Break-ins_and_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_controversies_involvin...
belval 5y ago
imo our government is probably lawless enough, but I doubt that it is competent enough to pull something off like that. The CSIS pays bad wages, their employees are mostly there for the cushy 9 to 5.
- el_memorioso 5y ago
  So incompetent they couldn't access an unsecured Amazon S3 bucket that was known to be insecure for some time? It sounds to me like GiveSendGo is simply incompetent with respect to security and some unskilled "hacker" took advantage of their incompetence.

gpm 5y ago

Both the words "our government" (i.e. the current canadian government), and "that" are doing work. Neither examples of random governments committing significant crimes, nor of the Canadian government committing less significantly corrupt crimes, contradict the premise.

rajin444 5y ago
There is ample evidence of the Canadian government breaking the law for their own benefit and there is ample evidence for these occurrences being “significant”. And that’s not even taking into account that once trust is broken there are likely many more instances that aren’t known.
- gpm 5y ago
  So by "significant" I'm excluding nonsense like this [1] where the government comes up with a creative (incorrect) interpretation of the law, and things like "a few rogue members of the government break the law" (e.g. [2]). Neither of those would explain a government entity hacking this website to leak this data in an attempt to benefit the government. I can't produce evidence that there isn't a history of actions like this, since my evidence really is just the lack of evidence. Thus I'd ask you to produce the "ample evidence" you claim exists. [1] https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/2020/09/04/ontario-court-rules-doug-fords-gas-pump-stickers-attacking-carbon-pricing-are-unconstitutional.html https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/2020/09/04/ontar... [2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/17/canada-covid-casino-police-stealing-watches-allegation https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/17/canada-covid-c...
  - lowkey 5y ago
    One relevant example of the Canadian gov breaking the law and lying about it until they were caught was the 2007 Security and Prosperity Partnership protests in Montebello Quebec. In that case the government used agent provocateurs (provoking agents) who were dressed as protesters while initiating violence to paint the protesters in a bad light. The linked Wikipedia article lists several other examples. [0] That said, I don't think the state was the responsible party for this attack. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur#Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur#Canada

908B64B197 5y ago

> It is very very very easy to find many examples of governments breaking the law for their own benefit. The current premier's father had feds planting explosive in people’s mailboxes [0] and tried to pin it on some political group he didn’t like back in the 70’s. Talk about a coincidence. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_controversies_involving_the_Royal_Canadian_Mounted_Police#Break-ins_and_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_controversies_involvin...

belval 5y ago

imo our government is probably lawless enough, but I doubt that it is competent enough to pull something off like that. The CSIS pays bad wages, their employees are mostly there for the cushy 9 to 5.

el_memorioso 5y ago
So incompetent they couldn't access an unsecured Amazon S3 bucket that was known to be insecure for some time? It sounds to me like GiveSendGo is simply incompetent with respect to security and some unskilled "hacker" took advantage of their incompetence.