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Mostly, I am pretty tired of the "I got a really small serving of fries today; capitalism has failed." commentary. I see it everywhere: something negative happ

Mostly, I am pretty tired of the "I got a really small serving of fries today; capitalism has failed." commentary. I see it everywhere: something negative happens, someone has to tie it into capitalism. Now, I am well aware of the fallacy of the excluded middle, but let's not kid ourselves that the "capitalism has failed" crew are anything but collectivists kvetching. I bring it up because a younger generation has little to no idea of various atrocities and grinding misery that also happened under various collectivist -isms, somewhere between ignorance and willful blindness. Maybe capitalism isn't great, but dang, some of the replacements turned out to be a lot worse. It'd be nice if that context were provided instead of just another jibe at capitalism, which is one field of attempted solutions to the vast and intricate problem of resource management.

grapescheesee 5y ago
"Maybe capitalism isn't great, but dang, some of the replacements turned out to be a lot worse." Well in terms of history we have not had a very long time for this experiment to play out. It is very possible that the construction of a system which allows both the generation of several billions of dollars also causes far greater harm than some of the other systems which were too heavy on the gas so to speak. If history is a guide, all forms of a system fall due to avarice, vanity, or an external system which is operating 'better' at the current time.
mindslight 5y ago
Is it not appropriate to say "capitalism has failed" when the central bank continually inflates the money supply so the finance industry can centrally plan the economy? Is it not appropriate to say "capitalism has failed" when most industries are dominated by two large market makers that move in lock step? Is it not appropriate to say "capitalism has failed" when the supply of essential goods necessary to have a distributed economy, like home ownership, has been priced out of reach of most people? Is it not appropriate to say "capitalism has failed" when it's easier to get investment money for outlandish throwaway subscription bets rather than long term development? Or topically, is it not appropriate to say "capitalism has failed" when it has paperclip-maximized its way to ignoring our human concerns? Communism deviated from its ideal model, precessed, and collapsed. Capitalism can, and is, failing similarly. If you're truly interested in preserving capitalism, then it behooves you to take criticism of it to heart, and examine how it is falling apart. Your failure to accept criticism as "anything but collectivists kvetching" will only further its demise.
- at_a_remove 5y ago
  That sounds suspiciously like the "true communism has never been tried!" bit I have heard so often. I don't particularly care about capitalism, myself, but the endless shallow attempts to tie whatever woe is being discussed to it is terribly reminiscent of how I used to hear about problems being the inevitable result of our nation turning away from Christ or whatever.
  - mindslight 5y ago
    > That sounds suspiciously like the "true communism has never been tried!" bit I have heard so often. Then you need to read my comment more deeply. Yes, it's adjacent to that no-true-Scotsman. The difference is I'm pointing out the inevitably of such, cf Goodhart's law. Just like implementing communism inevitably results in a concrete model that differs from the ideal, which will then be optimized for, the same thing is happening to capitalism. The objective difference is that it has taken capitalism longer to precess, but that's not particularly exceptional given the lasting power of say monarchy. > I don't particularly care about capitalism By your comments, you effectively do. You can't make an argument and then feign nihilism. > the endless shallow attempts to tie whatever woe is being discussed to it is terribly reminiscent of how I used to hear about problems being the inevitable result of our nation turning away from Christ or whatever Sure, there is always much groupthink and false attribution. Still, specific arguments need to be judged on their own merits. Reflexively opposing the prevailing groupthink is just another type of following.
    - at_a_remove 5y ago
      No, I really don't. Here: Imagine someone keeps making this odd squawking noise in some language you do not understand, every time there is a discussion where something remotely negative is discussed. You don't have to really care about what that noise means, or its opposite, to not want to hear it anymore. That's all. "Capitalism has failed" is that squawk, because who knows what will be put in its place but just the sheer amount of hearing it all the time is irritating. That's what I mean by mentioning how shallow it is as a critique, it's just this sound people keep making.

grapescheesee 5y ago

"Maybe capitalism isn't great, but dang, some of the replacements turned out to be a lot worse." Well in terms of history we have not had a very long time for this experiment to play out. It is very possible that the construction of a system which allows both the generation of several billions of dollars also causes far greater harm than some of the other systems which were too heavy on the gas so to speak. If history is a guide, all forms of a system fall due to avarice, vanity, or an external system which is operating 'better' at the current time.

mindslight 5y ago

Is it not appropriate to say "capitalism has failed" when the central bank continually inflates the money supply so the finance industry can centrally plan the economy? Is it not appropriate to say "capitalism has failed" when most industries are dominated by two large market makers that move in lock step? Is it not appropriate to say "capitalism has failed" when the supply of essential goods necessary to have a distributed economy, like home ownership, has been priced out of reach of most people? Is it not appropriate to say "capitalism has failed" when it's easier to get investment money for outlandish throwaway subscription bets rather than long term development? Or topically, is it not appropriate to say "capitalism has failed" when it has paperclip-maximized its way to ignoring our human concerns? Communism deviated from its ideal model, precessed, and collapsed. Capitalism can, and is, failing similarly. If you're truly interested in preserving capitalism, then it behooves you to take criticism of it to heart, and examine how it is falling apart. Your failure to accept criticism as "anything but collectivists kvetching" will only further its demise.

at_a_remove 5y ago
That sounds suspiciously like the "true communism has never been tried!" bit I have heard so often. I don't particularly care about capitalism, myself, but the endless shallow attempts to tie whatever woe is being discussed to it is terribly reminiscent of how I used to hear about problems being the inevitable result of our nation turning away from Christ or whatever.
- mindslight 5y ago
  > That sounds suspiciously like the "true communism has never been tried!" bit I have heard so often. Then you need to read my comment more deeply. Yes, it's adjacent to that no-true-Scotsman. The difference is I'm pointing out the inevitably of such, cf Goodhart's law. Just like implementing communism inevitably results in a concrete model that differs from the ideal, which will then be optimized for, the same thing is happening to capitalism. The objective difference is that it has taken capitalism longer to precess, but that's not particularly exceptional given the lasting power of say monarchy. > I don't particularly care about capitalism By your comments, you effectively do. You can't make an argument and then feign nihilism. > the endless shallow attempts to tie whatever woe is being discussed to it is terribly reminiscent of how I used to hear about problems being the inevitable result of our nation turning away from Christ or whatever Sure, there is always much groupthink and false attribution. Still, specific arguments need to be judged on their own merits. Reflexively opposing the prevailing groupthink is just another type of following.
  - at_a_remove 5y ago
    No, I really don't. Here: Imagine someone keeps making this odd squawking noise in some language you do not understand, every time there is a discussion where something remotely negative is discussed. You don't have to really care about what that noise means, or its opposite, to not want to hear it anymore. That's all. "Capitalism has failed" is that squawk, because who knows what will be put in its place but just the sheer amount of hearing it all the time is irritating. That's what I mean by mentioning how shallow it is as a critique, it's just this sound people keep making.