4 ms·

“As long as you're open about your past and convictions” 100% this. We had someone who hid that he was previously gone to prison for robbing banks. He used his

“As long as you're open about your past and convictions” 100% this. We had someone who hid that he was previously gone to prison for robbing banks. He used his dad’s SSN and slipped through the cracks. He was terminated immediately when a girl who was mad at him called our company to let us know to get back at him. You can’t know for sure if people will look past your history, but I can guarantee you don’t want to hide it and have them find out later or someone hold it over your head. The place that is meant for you will be the one where you are accepted for who you are.

notch656a 5y ago
Sounds like place he was at accepted him just fine until dumb bitch ratted him out for something that happened outside of work. Dude got a good run at least. Not lying about convictions sounds great from the pious ivory tower or from seasoned professionals who may have enough experience that others are able to look beyond their past. Dude already did his time, in my book the conviction doesn't exist anymore. My honest advice for ex-crims is to find small shops that don't run BG check (yes these places do exist) and never mention their crimes. After a 3-5 years in industry your past will be far enough behind you can get into most small businesses positions you are qualified for.
- tcgv 5y ago
  I see your point, and I'm in favor of inclusion in the workplace, but it's not all black and white. Would you allow a convicted sexual offender who did his time in jail take care of your child in a day care facility to which he got employed and didn't disclose his past conviction? Things need to be put into perspective, and evaluated carefully. With that said I don't think immediate termination was the right decision to make in that situation the parent comment described. Inclusion requires consideration and empathy, the company didn't demonstrate that.
  - notch656a 5y ago
    I've not run a BG check on anyone who takes care of my kids. Sometimes we also hire babysitters to come take care of my child, I don't run BG check either. I probably wouldn't like it if I found out they raped a (actual, not like statutory w/ a lying 17 y/o with fake ID like happened to Cody Wilson) child, because I believe the appropriate solution for that is the death penalty, and thus I don't see them as having completed their sentence. But if someone is out in society, I treat them based on the way I have observed them to treat myself and others, rather than what the government says. A lot of sex offenses are total BS such as someone urinated in public (which is socially acceptable in many places of the world).
  - syshum 5y ago
    >>>Things need to be put into perspective, and evaluated carefully. And leading with hyperbolic "Think of the children" hand waving pearl clutching does nothing to put "things into perspective" In the context of this thread we are talking about someone convicted of hacking wanting to work in IT again, not a child molester wanting to babysit your child. So yes lets keep things in perspective shall we?
    - tcgv 5y ago
      You're right. I'm sorry if I was disrespectful with the participants in the discussion and the OP, that wasn't my intetion. It's indeed a completely different situation.
  - btilly 5y ago
    Are you aware that an estimated 1/4 of all registered sex offenders were themselves minors when they committed their offense? And age 14 is the single year that you're most likely to become a registered sex offender? I fully understand and appreciate the purpose of our laws. The practice, however, is a different story. And unless we stop including as crimes things that I'm not willing to consider crimes, I can't support the way that "registered sex offender" is routinely used to destroy lives over childhood mistakes.
    - withinboredom 5y ago
      Or the number of registered sex offenders for peeing on the side of the interstate.
    - tcgv 5y ago
      I wasn't aware of that, it's suprising and sad. Thanks for pointing that out.
      - btilly 5y ago
        It is not so surprising when you consider how many laws have fixed age limits. For example a 13 year old sends an intimate picture to a 14 year old friend, the 14 year old has just committed a crime by having that picture. The law is intended to target adult pedophiles. But when the people involved are basically the same age, it isn't pedophilia!
        notch656a 5y ago
        Yeah not to mention no mens rea is needed for statutory rape. That is a 17 y/o could show you a passport and DL with her age as 18, and tell you and look like she is 18, yet you would still be convicted. Hardly any other crime has this kind of strict liability where honest and thorough due diligence doesn't absolve you of the crime.
- d4mi3n 5y ago
  > Not lying about convictions sounds great from the pious ivory tower or from seasoned professionals who may have enough experience that others are able to look beyond their past. Sadly--and I do mean this, I agree with your sentiment--what we believe and what is required by an organization in a sensitive industry (finance, education, defense) are different things. For example, if you want to operate as a public company in finance with industry-standard certifications, you must perform background checks and reject candidates with a criminal history involving financial crimes. Schools and other educational institutions likewise are require to reject candidates with a criminal record that includes charges of violent crime, sexual offenses, or similar. Lying about charges that aren't relevant to the filtering criteria will be noticed in such industries and be a big red flag to any HR rep or hiring manager reviewing an application. This also shields you from a situation where some other employee learns and disseminates unflattering information--if one's manager and HR has cleared that info, it's nobody else's business and you have avenues and support available to you to prevent discrimination due to a criminal history.
  - syshum 5y ago
    >>what is required by an organization in a sensitive industry That really is not a factor, I have worked for a number of organizations that would never higher anyone convicted of a felony who did not have any sensitive requirements, were not dealing with money, or personal info, or anything important really There is just a huge stigma when it comes to criminal records, which is doubly painful in a over criminalized society like we have in the US.
    - notch656a 5y ago
      I'm a huge believer that if people can't be trusted in society, they should be in jail, executed, or banished to someplace like Namibian desert / Siberia. A free man (after prison/probation) should be free; their conviction behind them and essentially erased. A free man can easily rape/murder/steal regardless of any BG check you put in place. If you're free, you have the full rights and priveleges of a free man including bearing guns or taking care of children or being CFO of a finance firm. Fuck any half-way system where you're released of all judicial punishment but you can't work, vote, or own a gun. THAT is cruel and unusual punishment.
- noasaservice 5y ago
  Vouched because of the good conversations going on downthread. Parent is pretty crude. I can live with crudeneess and bring the quality of the conversation up. Anyways, I've wholeheartedly recommended lying in certain situations on employment. (Don't lie about certified/licensed/bonded jobs, dont like to the state/feds, dont lie about stuff you cant do.) A while back (2009), I was in a very bad run. Got laid off. Didn't have a job for 1.5y . And it's hard to get back in work without already having a job... You get the side-eyes of "why werent you working this time???" crap. So, I started lying on my resumes. I found a company that went bankrupt 2 towns over, and put them as employed in a role I'm easily capable of. Am I lying? Absolutely. Can I do the role? Absolutely. I got the job, unsurprisingly enough. And I was there for 1y, enough to get a better work history to get out of the rut I was in. And I hopped from there to a better position, all the while slowly cleaning up the fakeness from my resume all the while generating a valid work history. It sucks, sure, that there's no good way to break in the work-world if you've been ejected. (Que entry-level jobs that require 5y experience...) Frankly, vs starvation, homelessness, destitution - you damn straight I'll lie. And if I have to, I will definitely do it again. Capitalism is stone-cold and heartless. And if that's what I have to be to survive in the work-world to make money, so be it.
  - notch656a 5y ago
    Yeah when I wound up homeless, I started applying for lots of wage labor. I quickly found out they had no interest in hiring a college educated white-collar worker. I may or may not have discovered* that if I were to have changed my resume to all shit / labor jobs (while keeping everything else the same so I could remember the companies well), they would employ me. I would have been able to dig myself out of my rut and get stable employment in a factory until I could get back into tech. After working in factory few months, I was able to get apartment. With apartment, I was able to get myself nice looking and clean and tech job. My process from day labor/ homeless (save up enough for airbnb/hotel) -> wage job (save up for apartment) -> professional job at this point is pretty much a well oiled machine. Sadly the first two steps basically require dishonesty. I've only been through this a couple times in my life and hope not to again. *This is all fiction, of course.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

notch656a 5y ago

Sounds like place he was at accepted him just fine until dumb bitch ratted him out for something that happened outside of work. Dude got a good run at least. Not lying about convictions sounds great from the pious ivory tower or from seasoned professionals who may have enough experience that others are able to look beyond their past. Dude already did his time, in my book the conviction doesn't exist anymore. My honest advice for ex-crims is to find small shops that don't run BG check (yes these places do exist) and never mention their crimes. After a 3-5 years in industry your past will be far enough behind you can get into most small businesses positions you are qualified for.

tcgv 5y ago
I see your point, and I'm in favor of inclusion in the workplace, but it's not all black and white. Would you allow a convicted sexual offender who did his time in jail take care of your child in a day care facility to which he got employed and didn't disclose his past conviction? Things need to be put into perspective, and evaluated carefully. With that said I don't think immediate termination was the right decision to make in that situation the parent comment described. Inclusion requires consideration and empathy, the company didn't demonstrate that.
- notch656a 5y ago
  I've not run a BG check on anyone who takes care of my kids. Sometimes we also hire babysitters to come take care of my child, I don't run BG check either. I probably wouldn't like it if I found out they raped a (actual, not like statutory w/ a lying 17 y/o with fake ID like happened to Cody Wilson) child, because I believe the appropriate solution for that is the death penalty, and thus I don't see them as having completed their sentence. But if someone is out in society, I treat them based on the way I have observed them to treat myself and others, rather than what the government says. A lot of sex offenses are total BS such as someone urinated in public (which is socially acceptable in many places of the world).
- syshum 5y ago
  >>>Things need to be put into perspective, and evaluated carefully. And leading with hyperbolic "Think of the children" hand waving pearl clutching does nothing to put "things into perspective" In the context of this thread we are talking about someone convicted of hacking wanting to work in IT again, not a child molester wanting to babysit your child. So yes lets keep things in perspective shall we?
  - tcgv 5y ago
    You're right. I'm sorry if I was disrespectful with the participants in the discussion and the OP, that wasn't my intetion. It's indeed a completely different situation.
- btilly 5y ago
  Are you aware that an estimated 1/4 of all registered sex offenders were themselves minors when they committed their offense? And age 14 is the single year that you're most likely to become a registered sex offender? I fully understand and appreciate the purpose of our laws. The practice, however, is a different story. And unless we stop including as crimes things that I'm not willing to consider crimes, I can't support the way that "registered sex offender" is routinely used to destroy lives over childhood mistakes.
  - withinboredom 5y ago
    Or the number of registered sex offenders for peeing on the side of the interstate.
  - tcgv 5y ago
    I wasn't aware of that, it's suprising and sad. Thanks for pointing that out.
    - btilly 5y ago
      It is not so surprising when you consider how many laws have fixed age limits. For example a 13 year old sends an intimate picture to a 14 year old friend, the 14 year old has just committed a crime by having that picture. The law is intended to target adult pedophiles. But when the people involved are basically the same age, it isn't pedophilia!
      - notch656a 5y ago
        Yeah not to mention no mens rea is needed for statutory rape. That is a 17 y/o could show you a passport and DL with her age as 18, and tell you and look like she is 18, yet you would still be convicted. Hardly any other crime has this kind of strict liability where honest and thorough due diligence doesn't absolve you of the crime.
d4mi3n 5y ago
> Not lying about convictions sounds great from the pious ivory tower or from seasoned professionals who may have enough experience that others are able to look beyond their past. Sadly--and I do mean this, I agree with your sentiment--what we believe and what is required by an organization in a sensitive industry (finance, education, defense) are different things. For example, if you want to operate as a public company in finance with industry-standard certifications, you must perform background checks and reject candidates with a criminal history involving financial crimes. Schools and other educational institutions likewise are require to reject candidates with a criminal record that includes charges of violent crime, sexual offenses, or similar. Lying about charges that aren't relevant to the filtering criteria will be noticed in such industries and be a big red flag to any HR rep or hiring manager reviewing an application. This also shields you from a situation where some other employee learns and disseminates unflattering information--if one's manager and HR has cleared that info, it's nobody else's business and you have avenues and support available to you to prevent discrimination due to a criminal history.
- syshum 5y ago
  >>what is required by an organization in a sensitive industry That really is not a factor, I have worked for a number of organizations that would never higher anyone convicted of a felony who did not have any sensitive requirements, were not dealing with money, or personal info, or anything important really There is just a huge stigma when it comes to criminal records, which is doubly painful in a over criminalized society like we have in the US.
  - notch656a 5y ago
    I'm a huge believer that if people can't be trusted in society, they should be in jail, executed, or banished to someplace like Namibian desert / Siberia. A free man (after prison/probation) should be free; their conviction behind them and essentially erased. A free man can easily rape/murder/steal regardless of any BG check you put in place. If you're free, you have the full rights and priveleges of a free man including bearing guns or taking care of children or being CFO of a finance firm. Fuck any half-way system where you're released of all judicial punishment but you can't work, vote, or own a gun. THAT is cruel and unusual punishment.
noasaservice 5y ago
Vouched because of the good conversations going on downthread. Parent is pretty crude. I can live with crudeneess and bring the quality of the conversation up. Anyways, I've wholeheartedly recommended lying in certain situations on employment. (Don't lie about certified/licensed/bonded jobs, dont like to the state/feds, dont lie about stuff you cant do.) A while back (2009), I was in a very bad run. Got laid off. Didn't have a job for 1.5y . And it's hard to get back in work without already having a job... You get the side-eyes of "why werent you working this time???" crap. So, I started lying on my resumes. I found a company that went bankrupt 2 towns over, and put them as employed in a role I'm easily capable of. Am I lying? Absolutely. Can I do the role? Absolutely. I got the job, unsurprisingly enough. And I was there for 1y, enough to get a better work history to get out of the rut I was in. And I hopped from there to a better position, all the while slowly cleaning up the fakeness from my resume all the while generating a valid work history. It sucks, sure, that there's no good way to break in the work-world if you've been ejected. (Que entry-level jobs that require 5y experience...) Frankly, vs starvation, homelessness, destitution - you damn straight I'll lie. And if I have to, I will definitely do it again. Capitalism is stone-cold and heartless. And if that's what I have to be to survive in the work-world to make money, so be it.
- notch656a 5y ago
  Yeah when I wound up homeless, I started applying for lots of wage labor. I quickly found out they had no interest in hiring a college educated white-collar worker. I may or may not have discovered* that if I were to have changed my resume to all shit / labor jobs (while keeping everything else the same so I could remember the companies well), they would employ me. I would have been able to dig myself out of my rut and get stable employment in a factory until I could get back into tech. After working in factory few months, I was able to get apartment. With apartment, I was able to get myself nice looking and clean and tech job. My process from day labor/ homeless (save up enough for airbnb/hotel) -> wage job (save up for apartment) -> professional job at this point is pretty much a well oiled machine. Sadly the first two steps basically require dishonesty. I've only been through this a couple times in my life and hope not to again. *This is all fiction, of course.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]