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Why is Joe Rogan an example of book burning when there is literal book burning happening? I’m very confused. This strikes me of a position that is advocating in

Why is Joe Rogan an example of book burning when there is literal book burning happening? I’m very confused. This strikes me of a position that is advocating in bad faith by cherry picking examples and ignoring more obvious examples of claimed phenomenon. (Similarly, why is social media being pointed to when we have literal banned book lists in schools, and literal banned teaching materials?) https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/right-wing-pastor-greg-locke-organizes-massive-book-burning/ar-AATmY5e?ocid=uxbndlbing https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/right-wing-pastor-greg-loc...

user-the-name 5y ago
Because this is an article for Quillette, which is an outlet for far-right propaganda. That is all. It is not in any way an intellectually honest or rigid argument, it is pushing a rightwing agenda.
- tharne 5y ago
  > It is not in any way an intellectually honest or rigid argument, it is pushing a rightwing agenda. Free speech is not a rightwing agenda, and if it is, that's a very troubling thing for the left.
  - user-the-name 5y ago
    Yelling about "free speech" most definitely is a rightwing agenda. Having any real insight into it is not, however.
tharne 5y ago
> Why is Joe Rogan an example of book burning when there is literal book burning happening? Because right wing groups have very little cultural power at this point. They may have some political power, but that doesn't count for much when the culture is not on your side. So yes, their book burning is bad, but it's ultimately not that consequential simply because these groups don't have the near-total cultural dominance of the left. It's like being punched by a six year-old, not good, but ultimately nothing more than a minor nuisance. On the other hand the types of folks calling for Joe Rogan's head dominate practically every cultural power center in American life: the educational system, the media, Hollywood, Big Tech, Corporate America, etc. So we they start trying to censor things, it's a big deal because they actually have the power to do some real damage, in a way that some hillbilly preacher could only dream of. Perhaps one of the most irritating traits of the American left is that they've never come to terms with the fact that they are the establishment. When you erroneously view yourself as a scrappy underdog instead of the vanguard of the establishment, you tend to get a little reckless in how you use your power.
- 62951413 5y ago
  The Commies never do. Stalin was still "defending his revolution" in the late 30s long after all those millions had been murdered. That's the nature of their barbarous ideology.
- notahacker 5y ago
  It's not just hillbilly preachers though is it? It's popularly elected state governments, roared on by media empires with massive audiences, passing new legislation which causes certain books to be pulled from school libraries by teachers fearful of ending up in court. (I do agree that the groups pushing for such outcomes do so in the guise as the scrappy underdog, but they definitely aren't "the left") Arguments that this stuff is somehow inconsequential compared with the reckless horror of a media company editing the back catalogue of its highest paid public face don't come across as sincere defences of free speech.
- mindslight 5y ago
  > Because right wing groups have very little cultural power at this point Except at the state/local level, where they do, and where they end up creating very real harm by going on witch hunts for things like "critical race theory", or persistently trying to ban essential medical procedures. The cultural zeitgeist leans left, because the left professes acceptance (earnestly or not). The establishment tends towards acceptance because it's economically prudent - commercial interests are fundamentally ambivalent about culture. But for example, plenty of the establishment plainly leans right - eg Fox news and talk radio. However where the establishment has bona fide interests, it differs sharply from "the left" - wars, economic reform, corporate reform, surveillance - to the degree that it's patently nonsensical to say that the establishment overall "leans left". One of the most irritating traits of "the right" is they're overly focused on the kids-table topic of two-sided "culture war", and then pigeonhole everything that disagrees with them in the larger sphere as "the left". From my perspective, the real battle line is libertarian-individual vs authoritarian-corporate. If the grassroots of both tribes could stop being distracted by the (establishment-manufactured) culture war bullshit, they'd see they have much more in common than not. For one example, the recent murder of Amir Locke is a straightforward 2nd amendment issue.
- 5y ago

user-the-name 5y ago

Because this is an article for Quillette, which is an outlet for far-right propaganda. That is all. It is not in any way an intellectually honest or rigid argument, it is pushing a rightwing agenda.

tharne 5y ago
> It is not in any way an intellectually honest or rigid argument, it is pushing a rightwing agenda. Free speech is not a rightwing agenda, and if it is, that's a very troubling thing for the left.
- user-the-name 5y ago
  Yelling about "free speech" most definitely is a rightwing agenda. Having any real insight into it is not, however.

tharne 5y ago

> Why is Joe Rogan an example of book burning when there is literal book burning happening? Because right wing groups have very little cultural power at this point. They may have some political power, but that doesn't count for much when the culture is not on your side. So yes, their book burning is bad, but it's ultimately not that consequential simply because these groups don't have the near-total cultural dominance of the left. It's like being punched by a six year-old, not good, but ultimately nothing more than a minor nuisance. On the other hand the types of folks calling for Joe Rogan's head dominate practically every cultural power center in American life: the educational system, the media, Hollywood, Big Tech, Corporate America, etc. So we they start trying to censor things, it's a big deal because they actually have the power to do some real damage, in a way that some hillbilly preacher could only dream of. Perhaps one of the most irritating traits of the American left is that they've never come to terms with the fact that they are the establishment. When you erroneously view yourself as a scrappy underdog instead of the vanguard of the establishment, you tend to get a little reckless in how you use your power.

62951413 5y ago
The Commies never do. Stalin was still "defending his revolution" in the late 30s long after all those millions had been murdered. That's the nature of their barbarous ideology.
notahacker 5y ago
It's not just hillbilly preachers though is it? It's popularly elected state governments, roared on by media empires with massive audiences, passing new legislation which causes certain books to be pulled from school libraries by teachers fearful of ending up in court. (I do agree that the groups pushing for such outcomes do so in the guise as the scrappy underdog, but they definitely aren't "the left") Arguments that this stuff is somehow inconsequential compared with the reckless horror of a media company editing the back catalogue of its highest paid public face don't come across as sincere defences of free speech.
mindslight 5y ago
> Because right wing groups have very little cultural power at this point Except at the state/local level, where they do, and where they end up creating very real harm by going on witch hunts for things like "critical race theory", or persistently trying to ban essential medical procedures. The cultural zeitgeist leans left, because the left professes acceptance (earnestly or not). The establishment tends towards acceptance because it's economically prudent - commercial interests are fundamentally ambivalent about culture. But for example, plenty of the establishment plainly leans right - eg Fox news and talk radio. However where the establishment has bona fide interests, it differs sharply from "the left" - wars, economic reform, corporate reform, surveillance - to the degree that it's patently nonsensical to say that the establishment overall "leans left". One of the most irritating traits of "the right" is they're overly focused on the kids-table topic of two-sided "culture war", and then pigeonhole everything that disagrees with them in the larger sphere as "the left". From my perspective, the real battle line is libertarian-individual vs authoritarian-corporate. If the grassroots of both tribes could stop being distracted by the (establishment-manufactured) culture war bullshit, they'd see they have much more in common than not. For one example, the recent murder of Amir Locke is a straightforward 2nd amendment issue.
5y ago