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I'm old and I don't like IRC. It's so annoying to use. It's almost as bad today as it was in the 90s. > Go help build a better alternative Yeah, people did th

by 323 5y ago

I'm old and I don't like IRC. It's so annoying to use. It's almost as bad today as it was in the 90s. > Go help build a better alternative Yeah, people did that. It's called Discord.

rglullis 5y ago
No, it's not. "People" didn't build Discord. A company built it, then sold it to Microsoft for more than $10 billion. There is nothing guaranteeing that it's still going to be around in the next 5 years, let alone the next 10 or 50 or 100. Remember the last "better alternative" that was also very good, worked on all major platforms, also got sold to MS for multiple billions? To go back to the OP's point and the article. If you are a neophyte who cares about nothing but the immediate convenience, sure, stick with whatever Big Tech is pushing you. But if you want longevity and stability, DO NOT BUILD YOUR HOUSE ON SOMEONE ELSE'S LAND.
- bikingbismuth 5y ago
  Discord didn’t end up selling to Microsoft.
- a2128 5y ago
  > A company built it, then sold it to Microsoft for more than $10 billion. Didn't Discord end up ending talks with Microsoft and staying independent? I don't think this deal ever actually went through.
  - SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
    Yes. Source: https://www.reuters.com/business/discord-terminates-buyout-talks-with-microsoft-wsj-2021-04-20/ https://www.reuters.com/business/discord-terminates-buyout-t...
  - rglullis 5y ago
    Ok. I stand corrected. Doesn't change much of the picture, does it? Do you think it is wise to concentrate so much power into one single corporation? What is Discord going to do in order to make enough profits to beat the return of a 10bi sale?
- nlowell 5y ago
  We're in all-caps italics territory so I'm not sure how helpful I can be, but I just want to stress the fact that as a modern human we all have to rely on organizations and companies outside of our control. Things like IRC, in 2022, are for software developers to talk to each other. Things like Discord, are built for my mid-twenties friends to talk to each other. If I moved to IRC for the control, I would have no one to talk to!
  - rglullis 5y ago
    Last paragraph: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30332146 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30332146
  - Agamus 5y ago
    I have been using IRC as a means to stay in touch with the people I actually care about since the 90's, and it hasn't let me down yet. Many of my friends are in their 20s, and only a few are developers.
    - oblio 5y ago
      1. How many of them technical? 2. How many of them are of a libertarian mindset? Or very politically active/vocal, otherwise?
      - Agamus 5y ago
        1. Probably ~30% or so 2. Probably ~10% or so
      - Hakashiro 5y ago
        Maybe you should have asked him how many friends he has. When MSN Messenger existed, I pushed hard to get people on XMPP. "It's no problem, there are multiplatform, multiprotocol clients anyway". I had more than 200 contacts on MSN Messenger. Most or all of them, people I met in real life. On XMPP? Maybe like... 10? Out of which perhaps only 2 I met in real life, and the rest I met on Linux forums. I was really aggressive on getting people to XMPP to the point I eventually closed my account and told people to reach me on XMPP. Nobody gave a fuck, of course they didn't. The world doesn't revolve around me. Look, we get it. It's sad that corporations are realising they can hold users hostage for profit, but unfortunately that's the tradeoff with ease of use. Oh, and Discord does so much more than IRC. It has voice chats "well just use Mumble", yeah but... why? Discord already has it. Or desktop sharing "use Jitsi", again, Discord already does it. Or large file sharing "roll your own FTP server", uhhh... no? Discord does it? And a web UI if you don't want to chat online. And reliable mobile notifications. And two factor authentication. And in-game overlays. FOSS fanatics struggle to admit commercial tools are so frickin' easy to use. I used to be like that, I understand. And then I got a job :P
balabaster 5y ago
They did build a better alternative - Slack, then Teams came along and tried to rebuild Slack and then Skype and then Bluejeans came along... and then Zoom... and then Discord and the comms environment keeps evolving and the rent keeps going up. This is life. Another product will be along shortly, and another, and another, and another... Whatever you build on will be ripped out from under you and you'll be forced to evolve, just as we all have had to since the beginning of software engineering. One thing is true as has been since the beginning - the next generation always knows better than the previous until life bites them in the ass and they learn their lessons the hard way too. As sure as the sun will set tonight and rise again tomorrow. There's little point in complaining about it. What will be, will be.
- quadrifoliate 5y ago
  > Slack, then Teams came along and tried to rebuild Slack and then Skype and then Bluejeans came along... and then Zoom... and then Discord and the comms environment keeps evolving and the rent keeps going up. This is life. Well, you could equivalently say that the problems with IRC are just life. It's relatively easy to have data from my IRC from 15 years ago -- do you think that will be true for people who are using Discord today? All I'm saying is, if you value your conversations and data, maybe explore the other side of that tradeoff where you don't have to keep moving from one platform to another, but keep working for 15-20 years on continuously improving an open platform; and get to keep all your data into the bargain. And it doesn't have to be IRC. It can be Matrix or Zulip or Mattermost (instead of Slack or Discord).
  - balabaster 5y ago
    My main point still stands - subsequent generations always thinking they know better until life bites them in the ass and delivers them a new order of humility. Life has a way of teaching us all a lesson or two when we get too big for our britches.

by 323 5y ago

I'm old and I don't like IRC. It's so annoying to use. It's almost as bad today as it was in the 90s. > Go help build a better alternative Yeah, people did that. It's called Discord.

rglullis 5y ago

No, it's not. "People" didn't build Discord. A company built it, then sold it to Microsoft for more than $10 billion. There is nothing guaranteeing that it's still going to be around in the next 5 years, let alone the next 10 or 50 or 100. Remember the last "better alternative" that was also very good, worked on all major platforms, also got sold to MS for multiple billions? To go back to the OP's point and the article. If you are a neophyte who cares about nothing but the immediate convenience, sure, stick with whatever Big Tech is pushing you. But if you want longevity and stability, DO NOT BUILD YOUR HOUSE ON SOMEONE ELSE'S LAND.

bikingbismuth 5y ago
Discord didn’t end up selling to Microsoft.
a2128 5y ago
> A company built it, then sold it to Microsoft for more than $10 billion. Didn't Discord end up ending talks with Microsoft and staying independent? I don't think this deal ever actually went through.
- SketchySeaBeast 5y ago
  Yes. Source: https://www.reuters.com/business/discord-terminates-buyout-talks-with-microsoft-wsj-2021-04-20/ https://www.reuters.com/business/discord-terminates-buyout-t...
- rglullis 5y ago
  Ok. I stand corrected. Doesn't change much of the picture, does it? Do you think it is wise to concentrate so much power into one single corporation? What is Discord going to do in order to make enough profits to beat the return of a 10bi sale?
nlowell 5y ago
We're in all-caps italics territory so I'm not sure how helpful I can be, but I just want to stress the fact that as a modern human we all have to rely on organizations and companies outside of our control. Things like IRC, in 2022, are for software developers to talk to each other. Things like Discord, are built for my mid-twenties friends to talk to each other. If I moved to IRC for the control, I would have no one to talk to!
- rglullis 5y ago
  Last paragraph: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30332146 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30332146
- Agamus 5y ago
  I have been using IRC as a means to stay in touch with the people I actually care about since the 90's, and it hasn't let me down yet. Many of my friends are in their 20s, and only a few are developers.
  - oblio 5y ago
    1. How many of them technical? 2. How many of them are of a libertarian mindset? Or very politically active/vocal, otherwise?
    - Agamus 5y ago
      1. Probably ~30% or so 2. Probably ~10% or so
    - Hakashiro 5y ago
      Maybe you should have asked him how many friends he has. When MSN Messenger existed, I pushed hard to get people on XMPP. "It's no problem, there are multiplatform, multiprotocol clients anyway". I had more than 200 contacts on MSN Messenger. Most or all of them, people I met in real life. On XMPP? Maybe like... 10? Out of which perhaps only 2 I met in real life, and the rest I met on Linux forums. I was really aggressive on getting people to XMPP to the point I eventually closed my account and told people to reach me on XMPP. Nobody gave a fuck, of course they didn't. The world doesn't revolve around me. Look, we get it. It's sad that corporations are realising they can hold users hostage for profit, but unfortunately that's the tradeoff with ease of use. Oh, and Discord does so much more than IRC. It has voice chats "well just use Mumble", yeah but... why? Discord already has it. Or desktop sharing "use Jitsi", again, Discord already does it. Or large file sharing "roll your own FTP server", uhhh... no? Discord does it? And a web UI if you don't want to chat online. And reliable mobile notifications. And two factor authentication. And in-game overlays. FOSS fanatics struggle to admit commercial tools are so frickin' easy to use. I used to be like that, I understand. And then I got a job :P

balabaster 5y ago

They did build a better alternative - Slack, then Teams came along and tried to rebuild Slack and then Skype and then Bluejeans came along... and then Zoom... and then Discord and the comms environment keeps evolving and the rent keeps going up. This is life. Another product will be along shortly, and another, and another, and another... Whatever you build on will be ripped out from under you and you'll be forced to evolve, just as we all have had to since the beginning of software engineering. One thing is true as has been since the beginning - the next generation always knows better than the previous until life bites them in the ass and they learn their lessons the hard way too. As sure as the sun will set tonight and rise again tomorrow. There's little point in complaining about it. What will be, will be.

quadrifoliate 5y ago
> Slack, then Teams came along and tried to rebuild Slack and then Skype and then Bluejeans came along... and then Zoom... and then Discord and the comms environment keeps evolving and the rent keeps going up. This is life. Well, you could equivalently say that the problems with IRC are just life. It's relatively easy to have data from my IRC from 15 years ago -- do you think that will be true for people who are using Discord today? All I'm saying is, if you value your conversations and data, maybe explore the other side of that tradeoff where you don't have to keep moving from one platform to another, but keep working for 15-20 years on continuously improving an open platform; and get to keep all your data into the bargain. And it doesn't have to be IRC. It can be Matrix or Zulip or Mattermost (instead of Slack or Discord).
- balabaster 5y ago
  My main point still stands - subsequent generations always thinking they know better until life bites them in the ass and delivers them a new order of humility. Life has a way of teaching us all a lesson or two when we get too big for our britches.