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The small US city I live in made such a change, it we had several pedestrians get hit in the first year or so because drivers aren't used to it, can't see peopl

The small US city I live in made such a change, it we had several pedestrians get hit in the first year or so because drivers aren't used to it, can't see people very well, and pedestrians just figured everyone would now just stop. We changed the laws to restrict it to only crosswalks and added in a ton of new crosswalks. Even then, it was still a problem because pedestrians don't realize when someone can see them. If the are in the shade of a tree on a bright day, they can't be seen. There was a lot of learning and training to be done (some of it dumb), but now things are ok. "Crossing the road anywhere" is quite dumb, I think, and I guarantee you'll see a spike of pedestrians getting hit for a while. Just because you can legally do it doesn't mean it's a good idea.

goodpoint 5y ago
> "Crossing the road anywhere" is quite dumb, I think, and I guarantee you'll see a spike of pedestrians getting hit for a while Wrong. It's the very opposite. Research shows that drivers increase their attention when they know that there can be obstacles and/or the road is not wide and straight.
avianlyric 5y ago
You’ve been able to cross a road anywhere since the dawn of time in pretty much the entire of Europe (U.K. included). The changes in Highway Code really just say that cars should give way to pedestrians that are crossing minor roads, while walking down a major road. I.e. the general rule is that all traffic going down a major should wait and give way to continuing traffic, regardless of if it’s a car, bike or pedestrian, when they enter or leave the major road to/from a minor road. There’s is still an expectation that all road uses take care and respect other road users. You don’t ever have a “right of way” only the obligation to “give way”.
- iso1631 5y ago
  > The changes in Highway Code really just say that cars should give way to pedestrians that are crossing minor roads, while walking down a major road. That was always the case, see Rule 182 from the 2006 version for example https://web.archive.org/web/20060418012127/http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/20.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20060418012127/http://www.highwa... "turning at road junctions; give way to pedestrians who are already crossing the road into which you are turning" The change was you now had to give way to those about to cross the road too
  - avianlyric 5y ago
    Yes I know. But the change makes it clear you shouldn’t impede continuing traffic (including pedestrians walking down the pavement), and you should consider the pavement part of the highway (which it is), rather than a separate part of the road which automotive traffic is allowed to cut through with impunity. Obviously cars should always give way to pedestrians in the roadway, the alternative is running them down. I don’t think we need a Highway Code rule to make it clear why that’s a bad idea.
    - iso1631 5y ago
      Cars of course have used the pavement as part of the highway for years, constantly driving and blocking it, mowing down about 40 pedestrians a week on the "safety" of the pavement, just for the convenience of the driver. The police nor council do anything about it. > I don’t think we need a Highway Code rule to make it clear why that’s a bad idea. While the UK is far better than the wild west of the US (pedestrians killed per million people per year. UK=5, New Jersey=22, New Mexico=47), there's still about 1 pedestrian a day killed by drivers, and 10 per day seriously injured. 20 children are killed or seriously injured every week for the "crime" of walking, almost all in towns where there is no need to be traveling more than 15mph (2 miles to get out of town or onto a major artery road, at 30mph that takes 4 minutes with no traffic lights, at 15mph that's 8 minutes)
      - avianlyric 5y ago
        I literally have know idea what point you’re trying to make.
laputan_machine 5y ago
In the US you aren't allowed to cross the road wherever you wish as a pedestrian? That seems bizarre to me, in the UK it's completely normal for pedestrians to cross the road wherever they want to. > and I guarantee you'll see a spike of pedestrians getting hit for a while. I guarantee the UK has a lower incidence of traffic collisions than the US, per capita or per miles driven.
- ghaff 5y ago
  In theory, you're supposed to use crosswalks where they exist and obey Walk/Don't Walk signs. In practice, people adhere to this most places about as frequently as never exceeding the speed limit by even a little bit in a car. I think I've maybe heard on one person in my life getting a ticket for jaywalking. (On the West Coast I think which at least historically paid more attention to this sort of thing than in the East.) Can't imagine getting a ticket for jaywalking in New York although the city has cracked down on cyclists running lights from time to time.
- fingerlocks 5y ago
  “Jaywalking” is rarely enforced in most places, even if it is a law at all, so yes you can probably cross anywhere you want. That doesn’t mean traffic will yield for you when waiting to cross, which is what we’re discussing here. Definitely look both ways before crossing in the US; drivers don’t expect pedestrians to randomly appear in the middle of the street.
guitarbill 5y ago
> We changed the laws to restrict it to only crosswalks and added in a ton of new crosswalks. Even then, it was still a problem because pedestrians don't realize when someone can see them. If the are in the shade of a tree on a bright day, they can't be seen. Yeah, nice one. Blaming the pedestrians, not the drivers. If the drivers can't see the pedestrians at a crosswalk, they simply need to drive slower.
thaway2839 5y ago
There's a difference between a small city (or even a big city) in the middle of a massive country making a change, and the entire country making the change. The former will almost always lead to more issues, no matter what the change is.

goodpoint 5y ago

> "Crossing the road anywhere" is quite dumb, I think, and I guarantee you'll see a spike of pedestrians getting hit for a while Wrong. It's the very opposite. Research shows that drivers increase their attention when they know that there can be obstacles and/or the road is not wide and straight.

avianlyric 5y ago

You’ve been able to cross a road anywhere since the dawn of time in pretty much the entire of Europe (U.K. included). The changes in Highway Code really just say that cars should give way to pedestrians that are crossing minor roads, while walking down a major road. I.e. the general rule is that all traffic going down a major should wait and give way to continuing traffic, regardless of if it’s a car, bike or pedestrian, when they enter or leave the major road to/from a minor road. There’s is still an expectation that all road uses take care and respect other road users. You don’t ever have a “right of way” only the obligation to “give way”.

iso1631 5y ago
> The changes in Highway Code really just say that cars should give way to pedestrians that are crossing minor roads, while walking down a major road. That was always the case, see Rule 182 from the 2006 version for example https://web.archive.org/web/20060418012127/http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/20.htm https://web.archive.org/web/20060418012127/http://www.highwa... "turning at road junctions; give way to pedestrians who are already crossing the road into which you are turning" The change was you now had to give way to those about to cross the road too
- avianlyric 5y ago
  Yes I know. But the change makes it clear you shouldn’t impede continuing traffic (including pedestrians walking down the pavement), and you should consider the pavement part of the highway (which it is), rather than a separate part of the road which automotive traffic is allowed to cut through with impunity. Obviously cars should always give way to pedestrians in the roadway, the alternative is running them down. I don’t think we need a Highway Code rule to make it clear why that’s a bad idea.
  - iso1631 5y ago
    Cars of course have used the pavement as part of the highway for years, constantly driving and blocking it, mowing down about 40 pedestrians a week on the "safety" of the pavement, just for the convenience of the driver. The police nor council do anything about it. > I don’t think we need a Highway Code rule to make it clear why that’s a bad idea. While the UK is far better than the wild west of the US (pedestrians killed per million people per year. UK=5, New Jersey=22, New Mexico=47), there's still about 1 pedestrian a day killed by drivers, and 10 per day seriously injured. 20 children are killed or seriously injured every week for the "crime" of walking, almost all in towns where there is no need to be traveling more than 15mph (2 miles to get out of town or onto a major artery road, at 30mph that takes 4 minutes with no traffic lights, at 15mph that's 8 minutes)
    - avianlyric 5y ago
      I literally have know idea what point you’re trying to make.

laputan_machine 5y ago

In the US you aren't allowed to cross the road wherever you wish as a pedestrian? That seems bizarre to me, in the UK it's completely normal for pedestrians to cross the road wherever they want to. > and I guarantee you'll see a spike of pedestrians getting hit for a while. I guarantee the UK has a lower incidence of traffic collisions than the US, per capita or per miles driven.

ghaff 5y ago
In theory, you're supposed to use crosswalks where they exist and obey Walk/Don't Walk signs. In practice, people adhere to this most places about as frequently as never exceeding the speed limit by even a little bit in a car. I think I've maybe heard on one person in my life getting a ticket for jaywalking. (On the West Coast I think which at least historically paid more attention to this sort of thing than in the East.) Can't imagine getting a ticket for jaywalking in New York although the city has cracked down on cyclists running lights from time to time.
fingerlocks 5y ago
“Jaywalking” is rarely enforced in most places, even if it is a law at all, so yes you can probably cross anywhere you want. That doesn’t mean traffic will yield for you when waiting to cross, which is what we’re discussing here. Definitely look both ways before crossing in the US; drivers don’t expect pedestrians to randomly appear in the middle of the street.

guitarbill 5y ago

> We changed the laws to restrict it to only crosswalks and added in a ton of new crosswalks. Even then, it was still a problem because pedestrians don't realize when someone can see them. If the are in the shade of a tree on a bright day, they can't be seen. Yeah, nice one. Blaming the pedestrians, not the drivers. If the drivers can't see the pedestrians at a crosswalk, they simply need to drive slower.

thaway2839 5y ago

There's a difference between a small city (or even a big city) in the middle of a massive country making a change, and the entire country making the change. The former will almost always lead to more issues, no matter what the change is.