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That’s a circular explanation. The iPad isn’t suitable for programming because it isn’t suitable for programming. The limitation is completely arbitrary because

by emsy 5y ago

That’s a circular explanation. The iPad isn’t suitable for programming because it isn’t suitable for programming. The limitation is completely arbitrary because Apple thinks they can tell users what they should use their devices for. It’s “Your holding it wrong” applied to software.

hughrr 5y ago
Actually that’s not it. It’s not suitable because of the modality, window management and state and data management concepts which are all compromises required for high efficiency touch driven mobile devices.
- emsy 5y ago
  Of course you're going to get a different experience than on a desktop OS, and you're not going to satisfy every programming environment. But between "virtually none" and "every" there is a huge space that iOS would be able to fill with its current OS design. I'd argue that a lot of developers could do their job on the iPad, if there was VS Code available for it. Right now this isn't even possible, because alternative browser engines aren't allowed on iOS. Why not allow the software on the device? There's no need to change the OS in the slightest. It's easy to dismiss the concept, when it hasn't even had the chance to prove itself.
  - hughrr 5y ago
    You can actually build code in swift playgrounds on iOS.
    - emsy 5y ago
      That's why I wrote "virtually". Others suggested virtualization, which I think would be a good tradeoff that doesn't require usability changes to the underlying OS (and would finally put the processor to good use). Other than that, the inability to code on iOS is due to artificial gatekeeping by Apple, not due to design decisions. There are many ways coding (and probably other types of apps!) on iOS would be possible, if it wasn't for Apple.
- alexvoda 5y ago
  1. People already use remote desktop software in order to interact with desktop OSs from the iPad. 2. The iPad Pro already has keyboard and mouse support 3. The iPad Pro is already powerfull enough to run virtual machines via emulation, see UTM 4. The formfactor is already prooven by the success of Microsoft Surface and copies. 5. The virtualization APIs created by Apple already exist This is just a matter of Apple having an enforced monopoly on app distribution and using that power to dictate what you should be able to use each device for.
  - cma 5y ago
    The funny thing is you can code redistributable stuff on iPad/iphone, just only within Roblox who made a special deal with Apple to avoid the normal dev license cost and Mac requirement, to enable child-labor entreprenuerers and where the cut is more like 70% instead of 30%.
    - hughrr 5y ago
      This is hilarious and spot on.
  - hughrr 5y ago
    1. Yes. Remotely 2. Sort of. It has good keyboard support and completely different mouse support to most platforms. 3. It probably isn’t within the thermal envelope specified and the storage available. 4. Surface is horrible so I’m not sure why that’s comparable. 5. Yes they do and are exposed by macOS only. I agree with apple. One of the reason iPads are so damn good is that they put some constraints on them to stop people doing horrible things. Virtualisation is one of those horrible things.
    - KolenCh 5y ago
      Virtualization is the only way they can give users a Mac experience while still being a walled garden with the associated security. So may be they never will give us Mac experience on iPad (including the shell, forking processes, compile any program which include JIT, etc.) But if they do, it is very likely it is some kind of virtualization that contain the associated risks of those freedoms.
- _ph_ 5y ago
  First of all, just having a full-blown shell with a text terminal would make the iPad much more usefull for small programming tasks. Then I can't see a reason why it couldn't run an X or Wayland desktop full-screen in a VM app, providing a standard GUI desktop just inside that app. It would make an iPad Pro much more useful when you can't justify to buy or just bring a dedicated laptop.
  - hughrr 5y ago
    Macbook air isn't a lot larger or heavier, especially when you add a keyboard case to it. In fact my MBA weighs less than my MBP with the logitech case on it.
    - _ph_ 5y ago
      Right, but then you might have to carry another device where just an app on the iPad would have been sufficient. Not to mention, that you would have to buy another device. And while that sounds like an incentive to Apple not to provide those capabilities to the iPad, I would have renewed my iPad Pro much earlier, if it were a bit more capable software-wise. I usually don't need a laptop, just a little bit more capable iPad.

by emsy 5y ago

hughrr 5y ago

Actually that’s not it. It’s not suitable because of the modality, window management and state and data management concepts which are all compromises required for high efficiency touch driven mobile devices.

emsy 5y ago
Of course you're going to get a different experience than on a desktop OS, and you're not going to satisfy every programming environment. But between "virtually none" and "every" there is a huge space that iOS would be able to fill with its current OS design. I'd argue that a lot of developers could do their job on the iPad, if there was VS Code available for it. Right now this isn't even possible, because alternative browser engines aren't allowed on iOS. Why not allow the software on the device? There's no need to change the OS in the slightest. It's easy to dismiss the concept, when it hasn't even had the chance to prove itself.
- hughrr 5y ago
  You can actually build code in swift playgrounds on iOS.
  - emsy 5y ago
    That's why I wrote "virtually". Others suggested virtualization, which I think would be a good tradeoff that doesn't require usability changes to the underlying OS (and would finally put the processor to good use). Other than that, the inability to code on iOS is due to artificial gatekeeping by Apple, not due to design decisions. There are many ways coding (and probably other types of apps!) on iOS would be possible, if it wasn't for Apple.
alexvoda 5y ago
1. People already use remote desktop software in order to interact with desktop OSs from the iPad. 2. The iPad Pro already has keyboard and mouse support 3. The iPad Pro is already powerfull enough to run virtual machines via emulation, see UTM 4. The formfactor is already prooven by the success of Microsoft Surface and copies. 5. The virtualization APIs created by Apple already exist This is just a matter of Apple having an enforced monopoly on app distribution and using that power to dictate what you should be able to use each device for.
- cma 5y ago
  The funny thing is you can code redistributable stuff on iPad/iphone, just only within Roblox who made a special deal with Apple to avoid the normal dev license cost and Mac requirement, to enable child-labor entreprenuerers and where the cut is more like 70% instead of 30%.
  - hughrr 5y ago
    This is hilarious and spot on.
- hughrr 5y ago
  1. Yes. Remotely 2. Sort of. It has good keyboard support and completely different mouse support to most platforms. 3. It probably isn’t within the thermal envelope specified and the storage available. 4. Surface is horrible so I’m not sure why that’s comparable. 5. Yes they do and are exposed by macOS only. I agree with apple. One of the reason iPads are so damn good is that they put some constraints on them to stop people doing horrible things. Virtualisation is one of those horrible things.
  - KolenCh 5y ago
    Virtualization is the only way they can give users a Mac experience while still being a walled garden with the associated security. So may be they never will give us Mac experience on iPad (including the shell, forking processes, compile any program which include JIT, etc.) But if they do, it is very likely it is some kind of virtualization that contain the associated risks of those freedoms.
_ph_ 5y ago
First of all, just having a full-blown shell with a text terminal would make the iPad much more usefull for small programming tasks. Then I can't see a reason why it couldn't run an X or Wayland desktop full-screen in a VM app, providing a standard GUI desktop just inside that app. It would make an iPad Pro much more useful when you can't justify to buy or just bring a dedicated laptop.
- hughrr 5y ago
  Macbook air isn't a lot larger or heavier, especially when you add a keyboard case to it. In fact my MBA weighs less than my MBP with the logitech case on it.
  - _ph_ 5y ago
    Right, but then you might have to carry another device where just an app on the iPad would have been sufficient. Not to mention, that you would have to buy another device. And while that sounds like an incentive to Apple not to provide those capabilities to the iPad, I would have renewed my iPad Pro much earlier, if it were a bit more capable software-wise. I usually don't need a laptop, just a little bit more capable iPad.