3 ms·

Let's assume that it doesn't have any nefarious motives, What's the argument against doing regular police work to catch criminals? Yes, I understand that it's

by mrtksn 5y ago

Let's assume that it doesn't have any nefarious motives, What's the argument against doing regular police work to catch criminals? Yes, I understand that it's extremely tempting to be able to peak into every persons communications but that has become feasible only the last decade or so. Just do your job the way it has aways been done. Haven't we seen how endless are the ambitions of politicians even in the most democratic countries? How one can expect that it's going to be their people who will be sneaking into the people's communications? If you are a tory, consider what happens if Corbyn takes over. If you are a democrat, consider what happens if Trump takes over. Don't even let me start over the commercial and industrial espionage in concert with the people in the govt. The moment E2EE is compromised, the computer age dies. This is not like tapping a phone line, the human civilisation is living in a virtual reality where communities come together, organize and express themselves at global scale. We don't need 3D avatars in a metaverse BS, we are already there and compromising E2EE instantly turns our world into a dystopia.

marginalia_nu 5y ago
In fairness, perhaps the problem of doing it the way "it's always been done" is that the criminals don't operate the same anymore, more than likely they aren't meeting up in dockside speakeasies, moreover they're probably not talking over phone lines either. Pimps and drug dealers don't need to stand on the street corners and advertise their stuff to make sales. Crime has changed. If their communication has mostly gone modern, digital, and encrypted, traditional policework gets a lot harder. That said, I'm not sure if going after encryption is the right way. But could be it is. I don't know. What if we the technology we've developed has us facing a choice between an Orvellian nightmare and Mad Max?
- mrtksn 5y ago
  "The old ways" doesn't have to be without using technology, what I mean by "old ways" is actually without having complete access to all the information. I don't say go tap phone lines, what I say is do the investigations without having access on every single thing that every one said or thought. Go seize servers, go install fake GSM towers to target the people under investigation. I don't see why not having access to complete communications should warrant Mad Max. You don't need to have access to everyones data to notice that kids are disappearing or firearms are being traded or something like that.
  - marginalia_nu 5y ago
    The old ways also hinged on people actually meeting up, on criminal enterprises producing a legible paper trail. Seizing encrypted hardware or intercepting encrypted traffic just doesn't work. We also mustn't forget that an integral part of old fashioned policework is just grabbing some random homeless person found in the area and beating them with a nightstick until they admit to the crime.

by mrtksn 5y ago

marginalia_nu 5y ago

In fairness, perhaps the problem of doing it the way "it's always been done" is that the criminals don't operate the same anymore, more than likely they aren't meeting up in dockside speakeasies, moreover they're probably not talking over phone lines either. Pimps and drug dealers don't need to stand on the street corners and advertise their stuff to make sales. Crime has changed. If their communication has mostly gone modern, digital, and encrypted, traditional policework gets a lot harder. That said, I'm not sure if going after encryption is the right way. But could be it is. I don't know. What if we the technology we've developed has us facing a choice between an Orvellian nightmare and Mad Max?

mrtksn 5y ago
"The old ways" doesn't have to be without using technology, what I mean by "old ways" is actually without having complete access to all the information. I don't say go tap phone lines, what I say is do the investigations without having access on every single thing that every one said or thought. Go seize servers, go install fake GSM towers to target the people under investigation. I don't see why not having access to complete communications should warrant Mad Max. You don't need to have access to everyones data to notice that kids are disappearing or firearms are being traded or something like that.
- marginalia_nu 5y ago
  The old ways also hinged on people actually meeting up, on criminal enterprises producing a legible paper trail. Seizing encrypted hardware or intercepting encrypted traffic just doesn't work. We also mustn't forget that an integral part of old fashioned policework is just grabbing some random homeless person found in the area and beating them with a nightstick until they admit to the crime.