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What I'm going to say is controversial (of course), but it's mostly true: Pat King is a poor uneducated white person, and his misguided views are a product of h

What I'm going to say is controversial (of course), but it's mostly true: Pat King is a poor uneducated white person, and his misguided views are a product of his difficulties in life. Obviously his own morality and ethics play into it, but the crux of the matter is that we understand why people have beliefs like this, and how to resolve the problem. See the efforts of Daryl Davis: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Davis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Davis Daryl realized that most members of the KKK are down on their luck people who've been abused by the system for most of their lives. These people tend to look for scapegoats that they can rally their anger against. They have legitimate grievances that they channel into illegitimate beliefs, because of various failures of reasoning. These are not highly educated and powerful people with agendas. The same kind of issues can be attributed to most anyone in a chronically bad situation. It's about as much of a "gotcha" as attacking incels for being inept, frustrated, and lonely. Well, yeah. That's why many people "overlook" things like this. Not because they agree with the sentiments that people like Pat King express, but because they understand three things: 1) The convoy protest isn't about Pat King's racist paranoia. It happens to be about a real problem that disenfranchises people. If anything, that could help people like Pat let go of their racist beliefs by realizing it's not just them with the problems. 2) Pat King is in no position to manifest his paranoid beliefs. 3) As condescending as it may be, poor and disenfranchised people tend to have problematic beliefs and behaviors; that doesn't mean they should be exiled. Otherwise, we'd wrongfully criminalize the homeless, drug addicted, and the mentally ill - which we often do, actually. So, painting the convoy movement as fundamentally racist because you found out that there are vulnerable people involved is disingenuous and does nothing to solve the real issues that caused it. We all know what the goal of the convoy is: to drop the covid mandates. That said, the convoy does lose it's legitimacy by not addressing the problem of people like Pat King, even as a propaganda smear. What I've just said is probably the gist of what they're thinking about it, but they haven't articulated this in public. However, I've heard them arguing about this on their Zello channel and from what I've heard they want to remove Pat King and are strongly against any racist sentiments.

donmcronald 5y ago
> Daryl realized that most members of the KKK are down on their luck people who've been abused by the system for most of their lives. These people tend to look for scapegoats that they can rally their anger against. They have legitimate grievances that they channel into illegitimate beliefs, because of various failures of reasoning. These are not highly educated and powerful people with agendas. I’ll take a pass on the political stuff, but this is similar to what Michael Moore was saying prior to the 2016 elections in the US. Paraphrasing, he said we were about to see how many upset, middle aged, white people feel like they’ve been disenfranchised because a lot of them would vote for Trump with the sentiment that if no one is trying to fix the system for them they figure it might as well be broken for everyone. That was the first time I realized Trump might get elected. I understand the sentiment, but breaking the system completely will just make things worse for those people. Wealthy people can capitalize on instability. Poor people can’t.
- prohobo 5y ago
  Exactly, Michael Moore was only wrong in that it wasn't just white people that ended up supporting Trump. This is fundamentally a class problem, not a racial thing. There are many reasonable people involved in this, and those are the people we should be focusing on. Seriously, unless you want more Trumpism then the valid issues need to be addressed.
weeblewobble 5y ago
Some more context on Mr. Davis in this interesting article: https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-curious-case-of-daryl-davis-the-black-man-befriending-members-of-the-kkk https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-curious-case-of-daryl-davi... The efficacy of his approach is worth investigating beyond the just-so descriptives used in your comment and the wikipedia article. Many of the people he claims to have converted are still avowed racists and klansmen.
- prohobo 5y ago
  Your immediate response is to try to attack his credibility? > Many of the people he claims to have converted are still avowed racists and klansmen. Where in the article did you get that? I'm sure some have "relapsed" for one reason or another, but that's not what was said here. Also, what are you expecting exactly? 100% efficacy where they all turn into boy scouts? Have you ever worked with the homeless, or any kind of damaged people, gangs, etc. before? The "just-so" candour I use in this is because it's a well known and practiced approach in urban outreach programs that actually works to help people. He's aiding and abetting the neo-Nazi movement by working to get many of them to doubt their negative beliefs - and putting in a good word for a couple of them in court? This is golden bullshit, let's see the stats!
  - weeblewobble 5y ago
    you yourself brought him up as someone to emulate if we want to fight racial discord. it seems to me that the efficacy of his methods are relevant to someone evaluating your claims. you say "let's see the stats"-- I agree, I'd like to see them. I'm skeptical. The stories in the article I linked (that racists he "converted" are actually using him as a shield while laughing at him in private) directly contradict your point. Maybe those stories are wrong. I'm open minded to that. But you and the wikipedia article you linked certainly haven't convinced me. When I say his story as told by you is "just-so", what I mean is that it's reductive, incurious, inch-deep. "Candour" is an odd way to describe stenographical repetition of the same blurbs he uses to get booked as a paid speaker. There's a real telling moment where he takes the time to straighten a klansman's white hood. People who are reading this comment are probably wondering if I'm joking right now. I encourage you to look into it

donmcronald 5y ago

> Daryl realized that most members of the KKK are down on their luck people who've been abused by the system for most of their lives. These people tend to look for scapegoats that they can rally their anger against. They have legitimate grievances that they channel into illegitimate beliefs, because of various failures of reasoning. These are not highly educated and powerful people with agendas. I’ll take a pass on the political stuff, but this is similar to what Michael Moore was saying prior to the 2016 elections in the US. Paraphrasing, he said we were about to see how many upset, middle aged, white people feel like they’ve been disenfranchised because a lot of them would vote for Trump with the sentiment that if no one is trying to fix the system for them they figure it might as well be broken for everyone. That was the first time I realized Trump might get elected. I understand the sentiment, but breaking the system completely will just make things worse for those people. Wealthy people can capitalize on instability. Poor people can’t.

prohobo 5y ago
Exactly, Michael Moore was only wrong in that it wasn't just white people that ended up supporting Trump. This is fundamentally a class problem, not a racial thing. There are many reasonable people involved in this, and those are the people we should be focusing on. Seriously, unless you want more Trumpism then the valid issues need to be addressed.

weeblewobble 5y ago

Some more context on Mr. Davis in this interesting article: https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-curious-case-of-daryl-davis-the-black-man-befriending-members-of-the-kkk https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-curious-case-of-daryl-davi... The efficacy of his approach is worth investigating beyond the just-so descriptives used in your comment and the wikipedia article. Many of the people he claims to have converted are still avowed racists and klansmen.

prohobo 5y ago
Your immediate response is to try to attack his credibility? > Many of the people he claims to have converted are still avowed racists and klansmen. Where in the article did you get that? I'm sure some have "relapsed" for one reason or another, but that's not what was said here. Also, what are you expecting exactly? 100% efficacy where they all turn into boy scouts? Have you ever worked with the homeless, or any kind of damaged people, gangs, etc. before? The "just-so" candour I use in this is because it's a well known and practiced approach in urban outreach programs that actually works to help people. He's aiding and abetting the neo-Nazi movement by working to get many of them to doubt their negative beliefs - and putting in a good word for a couple of them in court? This is golden bullshit, let's see the stats!
- weeblewobble 5y ago
  you yourself brought him up as someone to emulate if we want to fight racial discord. it seems to me that the efficacy of his methods are relevant to someone evaluating your claims. you say "let's see the stats"-- I agree, I'd like to see them. I'm skeptical. The stories in the article I linked (that racists he "converted" are actually using him as a shield while laughing at him in private) directly contradict your point. Maybe those stories are wrong. I'm open minded to that. But you and the wikipedia article you linked certainly haven't convinced me. When I say his story as told by you is "just-so", what I mean is that it's reductive, incurious, inch-deep. "Candour" is an odd way to describe stenographical repetition of the same blurbs he uses to get booked as a paid speaker. There's a real telling moment where he takes the time to straighten a klansman's white hood. People who are reading this comment are probably wondering if I'm joking right now. I encourage you to look into it