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I really hope that it ends up with Post Office management in prison for a long time. There seems to be evidence that they shredded incriminating documents: htt

by zelos 5y ago

I really hope that it ends up with Post Office management in prison for a long time. There seems to be evidence that they shredded incriminating documents: https://www.computerweekly.com/news/252498245/Post-Office-staff-instructed-to-shred-documents-that-undermined-its-claims-Horizon-was-robust https://www.computerweekly.com/news/252498245/Post-Office-st... According to one interview I heard, part of the problem is that the level of compensation that's actually required in this case is enough to render the Post Office insolvent.

unfocussed_mike 5y ago
> According to one interview I heard, part of the problem is that the level of compensation that's actually required in this case is enough to render the Post Office insolvent. Yes. And some families cannot be made whole; people killed themselves over this. (Just as they did over false prosecutions from "erroneous transfers" due to technical card fraud, which a researcher once alleged in The Register was propagated by the IT staff of a British bank)
wongarsu 5y ago
> According to one interview I heard, part of the problem is that the level of compensation that's actually required in this case is enough to render the Post Office insolvent From a legal perspective that shouldn't be a problem, and isn't a good argument for lesser compensation. Either Post Office Ltd can get a loan, get bought or go bankrupt, like any private company. If it's the last one that will obviously create political fallout, but resolving that isn't the job of the justice system.
samwillis 5y ago
> part of the problem is that the level of compensation that's actually required in this case is enough to render the Post Office insolvent. That would be good IMHO. Some people will disagree, but the post office going bust, and then nationalised would be a good outcome. It should never have been allowed to be privatised, it’s a national service, a place for providing contact to many different essential national provisions. True it needed to cut costs, moving into smaller premises does that. Even the partnership with WH Smith’s and village news agents are sensible. But it should fundamentally be a government provision. And while they are at it nationalise Royal Mail, and properly split Open Reach from BT and nationalise that too.
- chaircher 5y ago
  For those of you who don't know the context here: The Royal Mail was founded as a public service in 1516 by Charles I and was privatised in 2010. The Post Office was founded as a public service by Charles II in 1660 and I believed privatised in 1969. The Royal Mail are the people moving the post around, and the post office is where you go to post something if you're not going to put it in a post box, as well as do a lot of other things like renew your passport, change money into different currencies and you can even bank cash there.
  - fredoralive 5y ago
    I think you're somewhat confused by the fact that the parent organisation for the the Royal Mail[1] was called the General Post Office until 1969 then the Post Office [corporation] until 2000. It was then briefly Consignia in 2000, then Royal Mail Group in 2001. The Post Office retail chain was split into a subsidiary of the Post Office corporation called Post Office Counters Ltd in 1987, which was renamed to Post Office Ltd in 2001. When Royal Mail Group was privatised in 2013, the loss making Post Office Ltd retail business was retained by the government. [1] AFAICT the prominent use of "Royal Mail" for the postage side of the business seems to be fairly recent, post-GPO era thing as well?
    - chaircher 5y ago
      Yes you're right I am confused. Do you know if there's some sort of internal market within the post office, similar to how GP surgeries run in the NHS? Or some sort of franchise system? I think that's what's thrown me a bit. I've heard individual post offices being talked about like they're 'owned' by a specific person and typically the people referred to are business types who have multiple things going on
      - fredoralive 5y ago
        Sub-Post Offices are basically franchises, and these are the ones affected by the IT disaster. Branches owned directly by Post Office Ltd. are referred to as Crown Post Offices.
daverol 5y ago
Don't hold your breath: Paula Vennells, who was chief executive of the Post Office until 2019, was awarded a CBE for ‘services to the Post Office and to charity’...

by zelos 5y ago

unfocussed_mike 5y ago

> According to one interview I heard, part of the problem is that the level of compensation that's actually required in this case is enough to render the Post Office insolvent. Yes. And some families cannot be made whole; people killed themselves over this. (Just as they did over false prosecutions from "erroneous transfers" due to technical card fraud, which a researcher once alleged in The Register was propagated by the IT staff of a British bank)

wongarsu 5y ago

> According to one interview I heard, part of the problem is that the level of compensation that's actually required in this case is enough to render the Post Office insolvent From a legal perspective that shouldn't be a problem, and isn't a good argument for lesser compensation. Either Post Office Ltd can get a loan, get bought or go bankrupt, like any private company. If it's the last one that will obviously create political fallout, but resolving that isn't the job of the justice system.

samwillis 5y ago

> part of the problem is that the level of compensation that's actually required in this case is enough to render the Post Office insolvent. That would be good IMHO. Some people will disagree, but the post office going bust, and then nationalised would be a good outcome. It should never have been allowed to be privatised, it’s a national service, a place for providing contact to many different essential national provisions. True it needed to cut costs, moving into smaller premises does that. Even the partnership with WH Smith’s and village news agents are sensible. But it should fundamentally be a government provision. And while they are at it nationalise Royal Mail, and properly split Open Reach from BT and nationalise that too.

chaircher 5y ago
For those of you who don't know the context here: The Royal Mail was founded as a public service in 1516 by Charles I and was privatised in 2010. The Post Office was founded as a public service by Charles II in 1660 and I believed privatised in 1969. The Royal Mail are the people moving the post around, and the post office is where you go to post something if you're not going to put it in a post box, as well as do a lot of other things like renew your passport, change money into different currencies and you can even bank cash there.
- fredoralive 5y ago
  I think you're somewhat confused by the fact that the parent organisation for the the Royal Mail[1] was called the General Post Office until 1969 then the Post Office [corporation] until 2000. It was then briefly Consignia in 2000, then Royal Mail Group in 2001. The Post Office retail chain was split into a subsidiary of the Post Office corporation called Post Office Counters Ltd in 1987, which was renamed to Post Office Ltd in 2001. When Royal Mail Group was privatised in 2013, the loss making Post Office Ltd retail business was retained by the government. [1] AFAICT the prominent use of "Royal Mail" for the postage side of the business seems to be fairly recent, post-GPO era thing as well?
  - chaircher 5y ago
    Yes you're right I am confused. Do you know if there's some sort of internal market within the post office, similar to how GP surgeries run in the NHS? Or some sort of franchise system? I think that's what's thrown me a bit. I've heard individual post offices being talked about like they're 'owned' by a specific person and typically the people referred to are business types who have multiple things going on
    - fredoralive 5y ago
      Sub-Post Offices are basically franchises, and these are the ones affected by the IT disaster. Branches owned directly by Post Office Ltd. are referred to as Crown Post Offices.

daverol 5y ago

Don't hold your breath: Paula Vennells, who was chief executive of the Post Office until 2019, was awarded a CBE for ‘services to the Post Office and to charity’...