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The problem with projects like these is that once they become popular, they get a cease and desist letter and they're forced to stop. This means that the effor

The problem with projects like these is that once they become popular, they get a cease and desist letter and they're forced to stop. This means that the effort behind this game will be in vain just because they decided to use trademarked elements of the Sonic franchise. An example of what to do instead is this StarFox-inspired game that does not use any elements from the StarFox franchise: https://exzodiac.net/ https://exzodiac.net/ . By respecting intellectual property, they can publish and monetize their game. I am not affiliated with that project.

yaseer 5y ago
I agree that's the norm, however, Sega's attitude to Sonic fangames seems to be the exception that proves the rule. They are surprisingly receptive to the community, and in the case of Christian Whitehead, began to contract him for ports, and then eventually a Sega-approved, fan-made game; Sonic Mania. [0] https://kotaku.com/sega-takes-shot-at-nintendo-encourages-fans-to-keep-ma-1786527246 https://kotaku.com/sega-takes-shot-at-nintendo-encourages-fa... [1] https://screenrant.com/sonic-hedgehog-fan-games-sega-response-legal-allowed/ https://screenrant.com/sonic-hedgehog-fan-games-sega-respons... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Whitehead https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Whitehead
hnlmorg 5y ago
StarFox is Nintendo and they're famously aggressive in protecting their IP. Sonic, however, is owned by Sega who are famously laid back about fans using building stuff like this. In fact the Sega game Sonic Mania (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_Mania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_Mania) was made by fans after Sega contacted them to work on a Sonic 25th anniversary game based on the quality of those fans work on their hacked ROMs.
- 29athrowaway 5y ago
  That's a good outcome but Sega can change their stance at any moment. And they still have to like the game to let you publish it.
  - hnlmorg 5y ago
    > That's a good outcome but Sega can change their stance at any moment They could. But they've already had a long history of not doing that. So while the risk is there, it is definitely less risky than doing it with (for example) Nintendo IP. And to be honest I don't consider "Sega might change their minds" as a good enough reason not to do something. Intellectual property laws are already broken enough without suggesting people shouldn't engage with assets from the few companies that are more generous to their fans, just in case those companies change their mind. That feels like a senseless loss to me. > And they still have to like the game to let you publish it. While they are releasing the source, assets and some precompiled binaries for free, I don't think it's fair to say it's being "published" because generally when that term is used with regards to gaming it means something a lot different to releasing a project on GitLab. Semantics aside there's always going to be risk with a fan projects. However suggesting they release with original assets misses the point of these projects. They're exist because of the parent project not in spite of it. Sure they could release an original game with the same mechanics but different assets, however the point of this is a re-imagining of Sonic...specifically Sonic. Releasing this with original assets would undermine the point that this is intended to be a Sonic game (albeit an unofficial one). It's a little like asking a Queen tribute act to play original music. The point that band was formed was to cover Queen's music. I do understand that music royalties solves this problem, somewhat, so the analogy isn't water tight. But I hope you understand the sentiment behind it. To go back to the StarFox example you gave in your original post, the aim of that project was to publish a commercial game rather than something for fan service. So the aims are different between that and this Sonic game (and this is also why I made the distinction about this Sonic game not being "published" even though technically speak it is).
ArclightMat 5y ago
Well, this thing has been in development since 1998![0] Furthermore, SEGA has historically been very lenient with the Sonic community, where you can see prototypes of the games out in the wild being discussed [1], a yearly fangaming/ROM hacking contest [2][3] and a lot more. And of course you have 16-bit remakes and Sonic Mania, where former modders ended up being scouted by SEGA to work on official games. While SEGA could change their instance some day, I believe the current situation is beneficial to them, as even their marketing team (i.e the official Sonic twitter) is made up of former fandom members. [0] https://wiki.srb2.org/wiki/Versions https://wiki.srb2.org/wiki/Versions [1] https://hiddenpalace.org/News/Dreams_Come_True:_Sonic_1_(MD)_Prototype https://hiddenpalace.org/News/Dreams_Come_True:_Sonic_1_(MD)... [2] https://sonicretro.org/2021/10/18/shc-2021-the-results-are-in/ https://sonicretro.org/2021/10/18/shc-2021-the-results-are-i... [3] https://sagexpo.org/ https://sagexpo.org/
leonidasv 5y ago
I would like to point that SRB2 is already somewhat "popular". It's been in development since at least 1999 and has an enormous community. I remember playing it online around 2006 and, at that time, the game already had a big community: I quickly found non-US/Europe servers filled with human players. Sega may change its mind any time, of course, but it won't be just because the project got popular: for its niche, it's already.

yaseer 5y ago

I agree that's the norm, however, Sega's attitude to Sonic fangames seems to be the exception that proves the rule. They are surprisingly receptive to the community, and in the case of Christian Whitehead, began to contract him for ports, and then eventually a Sega-approved, fan-made game; Sonic Mania. [0] https://kotaku.com/sega-takes-shot-at-nintendo-encourages-fans-to-keep-ma-1786527246 https://kotaku.com/sega-takes-shot-at-nintendo-encourages-fa... [1] https://screenrant.com/sonic-hedgehog-fan-games-sega-response-legal-allowed/ https://screenrant.com/sonic-hedgehog-fan-games-sega-respons... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Whitehead https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Whitehead

hnlmorg 5y ago

StarFox is Nintendo and they're famously aggressive in protecting their IP. Sonic, however, is owned by Sega who are famously laid back about fans using building stuff like this. In fact the Sega game Sonic Mania (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_Mania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_Mania) was made by fans after Sega contacted them to work on a Sonic 25th anniversary game based on the quality of those fans work on their hacked ROMs.

29athrowaway 5y ago
That's a good outcome but Sega can change their stance at any moment. And they still have to like the game to let you publish it.
- hnlmorg 5y ago
  > That's a good outcome but Sega can change their stance at any moment They could. But they've already had a long history of not doing that. So while the risk is there, it is definitely less risky than doing it with (for example) Nintendo IP. And to be honest I don't consider "Sega might change their minds" as a good enough reason not to do something. Intellectual property laws are already broken enough without suggesting people shouldn't engage with assets from the few companies that are more generous to their fans, just in case those companies change their mind. That feels like a senseless loss to me. > And they still have to like the game to let you publish it. While they are releasing the source, assets and some precompiled binaries for free, I don't think it's fair to say it's being "published" because generally when that term is used with regards to gaming it means something a lot different to releasing a project on GitLab. Semantics aside there's always going to be risk with a fan projects. However suggesting they release with original assets misses the point of these projects. They're exist because of the parent project not in spite of it. Sure they could release an original game with the same mechanics but different assets, however the point of this is a re-imagining of Sonic...specifically Sonic. Releasing this with original assets would undermine the point that this is intended to be a Sonic game (albeit an unofficial one). It's a little like asking a Queen tribute act to play original music. The point that band was formed was to cover Queen's music. I do understand that music royalties solves this problem, somewhat, so the analogy isn't water tight. But I hope you understand the sentiment behind it. To go back to the StarFox example you gave in your original post, the aim of that project was to publish a commercial game rather than something for fan service. So the aims are different between that and this Sonic game (and this is also why I made the distinction about this Sonic game not being "published" even though technically speak it is).

ArclightMat 5y ago

Well, this thing has been in development since 1998![0] Furthermore, SEGA has historically been very lenient with the Sonic community, where you can see prototypes of the games out in the wild being discussed [1], a yearly fangaming/ROM hacking contest [2][3] and a lot more. And of course you have 16-bit remakes and Sonic Mania, where former modders ended up being scouted by SEGA to work on official games. While SEGA could change their instance some day, I believe the current situation is beneficial to them, as even their marketing team (i.e the official Sonic twitter) is made up of former fandom members. [0] https://wiki.srb2.org/wiki/Versions https://wiki.srb2.org/wiki/Versions [1] https://hiddenpalace.org/News/Dreams_Come_True:_Sonic_1_(MD)_Prototype https://hiddenpalace.org/News/Dreams_Come_True:_Sonic_1_(MD)... [2] https://sonicretro.org/2021/10/18/shc-2021-the-results-are-in/ https://sonicretro.org/2021/10/18/shc-2021-the-results-are-i... [3] https://sagexpo.org/ https://sagexpo.org/

leonidasv 5y ago

I would like to point that SRB2 is already somewhat "popular". It's been in development since at least 1999 and has an enormous community. I remember playing it online around 2006 and, at that time, the game already had a big community: I quickly found non-US/Europe servers filled with human players. Sega may change its mind any time, of course, but it won't be just because the project got popular: for its niche, it's already.