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Then why do they frame connection in terms of a habit that yields "unlimited upside" and prevents you from missing out on opportunities? You are absolutely rig

Then why do they frame connection in terms of a habit that yields "unlimited upside" and prevents you from missing out on opportunities? You are absolutely right that people are different, but this person comes across a little transactional and an exemplar of the Zuckerborg meme.

dskloet 5y ago
Why is it wrong to see a good friendship as very valuable?
- l33tbro 5y ago
  Because valuing close friends through the lens of what personal gain they may yield is more than a little sociopathic?
  - dskloet 5y ago
    Why? Happiness and valuable shared experiences are also gains.
    - l33tbro 5y ago
      What about my alcoholic friend I've known for 20 years that is destroying his life and lashing out at me right now because he is sick? Or my heavily depressed friend of 30 years who I sat with on the weekend? Not everything is about extracting maximum personal happiness. Friendship can also be about service.
      - dskloet 5y ago
        If you care about these people then presumably it does make you happier in the long term to let them know that you care about them. Especially if it's not that pleasant in the moment I imagine having a system to remind you could be helpful.
  - hungryforcodes 5y ago
    So we should become friends with people we don't value? Like random people on the street? It's a good idea, but would be exhausting.
    - p_l 5y ago
      At no point does he talk about making everyone into a deep friend. I guess english language is just incapable of explaining it due to not enough words to express the spectrum? Do note that he has different "frequency" categories (which don't have to map to "type of friendship" same way even in that one database!). Some are just people he is interested in meeting, maybe keeping in light contact over time. Some more often. Some so often that he actually pushes his schedule to ensure regular time for meetings, something that can be ridiculously hard even without crippling anxiety.
      - hungryforcodes 5y ago
        Oh actually I really agree with you and the OP. I was responding more to the parent post. I think it's ok to just partition our lives into friends we value -- and largely ignore others. We'd be insane otherwise. So long as we remember to keep a general humanistic value for the man (or woman or trans or define-it-yourself) on the street... As I get older I find it hard to even KEEP UP with normal friends flung far away and separated by the distance of time. Not everyone will agree with the OP, but I'm always impressed with old friends from 20 years ago that still keep contact. Something to consider.
        p_l 5y ago
        Considering my own issues, this system makes me envious, specifically because of how hard it is to ensure to call and talk or message etc. That said, the system I guess shows dual-use case of CRM technology ;)
        hungryforcodes 5y ago
        A CRM for long lost friends would be handy...
pell 5y ago
> and miss out on a ton of fun and opportunities. This is the actual sentence you are referring to and it seems omitting the "ton of fun" part is a bit disingenuous as it clearly stands against this perceived technocratic and opportunistic use of people. The word "opportunity" is not used any other time in the article, by the way.
usrusr 5y ago
The kind of person who needs a process like that would most likely also need a very strong push to follow through with it. Chances are cosplaying entrepreneur lingo is the nth iteration in a long line of attempts to convince themselves, new year's resolutions and the like, with all of the more dignified approaches having utterly failed. I'm in the same boats, both of them: the author's, failing to keep in touch and being aware of it, and yours, being intuitively revulsed by the systematic approach. I even refuse taking part in that weird ritual of Facebook birthday wishes, because I consider it somewhat dishonest to congratulate when I didn't remember myself.
otikik 5y ago
I think you might be overblowing things. The quotes are: > Staying in touch [...] require[s] little effort, time and resources but has an unlimited upside In this case the "unlimited upside" is set in contraposition to the amount of effort it requires. It might not exactly true (it's not "unlimited") but it's "big". > Unfortunately, for most people (me included) this isn’t something that happens naturally. So unless you have a solid system, chances are high that you won’t reach out to people regularly and miss out on a ton of fun and opportunities. What puts it in context for me is that first one in the second quote: this article is addressing people with difficulties keeping in touch. If you're not that, the article is not for you, and at's ok. Once that's clear, the other phrases read to me like motivational speech - for others and for the author themselves. If the article was about weight lifting, it would start by talking about the health benefits it can bring. A lot of friendships are (mutually) beneficial. Others are more neutral, and yes, some are pernicious. But you are not going to get people motivated to maintain them or make new ones if you lead with that. That'd be starting the weight lifting article by listing all the different injuries you can get. > Zuckerborg meme. I think you might be showing a lack of empathy here.

dskloet 5y ago

Why is it wrong to see a good friendship as very valuable?

l33tbro 5y ago
Because valuing close friends through the lens of what personal gain they may yield is more than a little sociopathic?
- dskloet 5y ago
  Why? Happiness and valuable shared experiences are also gains.
  - l33tbro 5y ago
    What about my alcoholic friend I've known for 20 years that is destroying his life and lashing out at me right now because he is sick? Or my heavily depressed friend of 30 years who I sat with on the weekend? Not everything is about extracting maximum personal happiness. Friendship can also be about service.
    - dskloet 5y ago
      If you care about these people then presumably it does make you happier in the long term to let them know that you care about them. Especially if it's not that pleasant in the moment I imagine having a system to remind you could be helpful.
- hungryforcodes 5y ago
  So we should become friends with people we don't value? Like random people on the street? It's a good idea, but would be exhausting.
  - p_l 5y ago
    At no point does he talk about making everyone into a deep friend. I guess english language is just incapable of explaining it due to not enough words to express the spectrum? Do note that he has different "frequency" categories (which don't have to map to "type of friendship" same way even in that one database!). Some are just people he is interested in meeting, maybe keeping in light contact over time. Some more often. Some so often that he actually pushes his schedule to ensure regular time for meetings, something that can be ridiculously hard even without crippling anxiety.
    - hungryforcodes 5y ago
      Oh actually I really agree with you and the OP. I was responding more to the parent post. I think it's ok to just partition our lives into friends we value -- and largely ignore others. We'd be insane otherwise. So long as we remember to keep a general humanistic value for the man (or woman or trans or define-it-yourself) on the street... As I get older I find it hard to even KEEP UP with normal friends flung far away and separated by the distance of time. Not everyone will agree with the OP, but I'm always impressed with old friends from 20 years ago that still keep contact. Something to consider.
      - p_l 5y ago
        Considering my own issues, this system makes me envious, specifically because of how hard it is to ensure to call and talk or message etc. That said, the system I guess shows dual-use case of CRM technology ;)
        hungryforcodes 5y ago
        A CRM for long lost friends would be handy...

pell 5y ago

> and miss out on a ton of fun and opportunities. This is the actual sentence you are referring to and it seems omitting the "ton of fun" part is a bit disingenuous as it clearly stands against this perceived technocratic and opportunistic use of people. The word "opportunity" is not used any other time in the article, by the way.

usrusr 5y ago

The kind of person who needs a process like that would most likely also need a very strong push to follow through with it. Chances are cosplaying entrepreneur lingo is the nth iteration in a long line of attempts to convince themselves, new year's resolutions and the like, with all of the more dignified approaches having utterly failed. I'm in the same boats, both of them: the author's, failing to keep in touch and being aware of it, and yours, being intuitively revulsed by the systematic approach. I even refuse taking part in that weird ritual of Facebook birthday wishes, because I consider it somewhat dishonest to congratulate when I didn't remember myself.

otikik 5y ago

I think you might be overblowing things. The quotes are: > Staying in touch [...] require[s] little effort, time and resources but has an unlimited upside In this case the "unlimited upside" is set in contraposition to the amount of effort it requires. It might not exactly true (it's not "unlimited") but it's "big". > Unfortunately, for most people (me included) this isn’t something that happens naturally. So unless you have a solid system, chances are high that you won’t reach out to people regularly and miss out on a ton of fun and opportunities. What puts it in context for me is that first one in the second quote: this article is addressing people with difficulties keeping in touch. If you're not that, the article is not for you, and at's ok. Once that's clear, the other phrases read to me like motivational speech - for others and for the author themselves. If the article was about weight lifting, it would start by talking about the health benefits it can bring. A lot of friendships are (mutually) beneficial. Others are more neutral, and yes, some are pernicious. But you are not going to get people motivated to maintain them or make new ones if you lead with that. That'd be starting the weight lifting article by listing all the different injuries you can get. > Zuckerborg meme. I think you might be showing a lack of empathy here.