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I’m curious what the author expected Amazon to do? Put him on paid leave as a brand new (expensive) employee?

tonyedgecombe 5y ago
>Put him on paid leave as a brand new (expensive) employee? That's exactly what my employer did when my daughter was dying from leukemia. It's also what I would do for an employee in the same situation, even if I had to trim my own salary.
- trynewideas 5y ago
  This, yes, for my partner dying of cancer. My company offered paid leave for any reason related to my partner's treatment and illness, from days off to shuttle them to chemo to weeks when they came off it and was officially terminal. And then five weeks' bereavement. And I live in the US; this is just what my company offered. Beyond that, my manager also continuously offered or arranged for things that made our life easier, in part because it kept me productive but in larger part because she cared about us as a person, something that continued not only after their death, but after I left the company, and after SHE left that company. Hell, my manager was the only person who sent us flowers during my partner's brief last stay in the hospital before dying. (Everyone else either was able to be there in person or didn't have time to make arrangements.) My manager pulled strings with hospital staff that I didn't know she had to have flowers in my partner's room within hours. When we were making last-days preparations, we even floated making her our emergency estate executor if I was somehow incapacitated, until someone physically closer to us volunteered. So, yeah. Put him on paid leave as a brand-new, expensive employee. Even if there's no guarantee he'll stay. Even if he'll leave the company anyway. Since I'm not sure whether empathy is a factor for you, at least because everyone else on the team is watching how a manager responds to this.
kcplate 5y ago
This same story has come up a couple of times and each time there is the chorus of “how inhumane etc..”, personally I’m sympathetic that his loved one was ill, and I know the difficulties with that situation, but, I am entirely unsympathetic to his work situation. The person was making $300k a year and you don’t make that kind of scratch without really high performance expectations and stress being placed on you. He took the job after his wife was sick, he was given opportunity to take leave to handle his personal business and mental health and chose not to do it. He could have used STD and LTD if he opted and appears he didn’t. At every stage this person appears to have made the “maximize money” decision instead of alternatives which could result in less job stress, but maximizing the focus on his family’s and his health. Was he given a shitty personal row to hoe, absolutely. Did he make it worse for himself…I think that’s a yes too.
netsharc 5y ago
TBH I also got a bit of a vibe of how the author seemed a bit whiny. But Amazon/Bezos has how many trillion dollars? He could afford a "well-being fund" and it wouldn't even hurt. But I guess that manager wasn't going to change Amazon, his job was to make his numbers look good and this depressed guy with a dying wife was making his job hard. There's a story about a Valve employee who got a paid extended leave when he got an illness: > In 2004, Wolpaw was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis. Expecting his condition to require a departure from the company, he spoke with managing director Gabe Newell, who surprised him by offering an extended leave with pay. "Your job is to get better," Newell said. "That is your job description at Valve. So go home to your wife and come back when you are better." Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_Wolpaw#Personal_life https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_Wolpaw#Personal_life
Tainnor 5y ago
He wrote in the article he was trying to perform, just that you can't really perform 100% in such a situation. A company that cares about its employees accepts that there can be personal reasons why someone might not be at their peak efficiency.
libertine 5y ago
Hmm there's something off: so Amazon expects the best out of people, even if that means sacrifices, in exchange of money... but people can't expected the same from Amazon? It doesn't sound balanced, if you're a valuable resource they should want you to stay and be at your best, even if that means giving you time. Else Amazon is yet another meat grinder, even for high performing people, where you as a person have no value to the company, except what you output. Because if something bad happens to you - which is a matter of time, because life throws curve balls constantly - you're done.
foldr 5y ago
Yes? What is not feasible about that? Amazon's behavior doesn't even make sense from a hard-headed business perspective. There's a good chance that this person could have continued working effectively if they'd just let him take a months' paid leave without piling the pressure on. Instead, Amazon faffed around for months with their sadistic extended firing process, which probably ended up costing way more than it would have cost to just give this person the time they needed to recuperate from their family crises.

>Put him on paid leave as a brand new (expensive) employee? That's exactly what my employer did when my daughter was dying from leukemia. It's also what I would do for an employee in the same situation, even if I had to trim my own salary.

trynewideas 5y ago
This, yes, for my partner dying of cancer. My company offered paid leave for any reason related to my partner's treatment and illness, from days off to shuttle them to chemo to weeks when they came off it and was officially terminal. And then five weeks' bereavement. And I live in the US; this is just what my company offered. Beyond that, my manager also continuously offered or arranged for things that made our life easier, in part because it kept me productive but in larger part because she cared about us as a person, something that continued not only after their death, but after I left the company, and after SHE left that company. Hell, my manager was the only person who sent us flowers during my partner's brief last stay in the hospital before dying. (Everyone else either was able to be there in person or didn't have time to make arrangements.) My manager pulled strings with hospital staff that I didn't know she had to have flowers in my partner's room within hours. When we were making last-days preparations, we even floated making her our emergency estate executor if I was somehow incapacitated, until someone physically closer to us volunteered. So, yeah. Put him on paid leave as a brand-new, expensive employee. Even if there's no guarantee he'll stay. Even if he'll leave the company anyway. Since I'm not sure whether empathy is a factor for you, at least because everyone else on the team is watching how a manager responds to this.

kcplate 5y ago

This same story has come up a couple of times and each time there is the chorus of “how inhumane etc..”, personally I’m sympathetic that his loved one was ill, and I know the difficulties with that situation, but, I am entirely unsympathetic to his work situation. The person was making $300k a year and you don’t make that kind of scratch without really high performance expectations and stress being placed on you. He took the job after his wife was sick, he was given opportunity to take leave to handle his personal business and mental health and chose not to do it. He could have used STD and LTD if he opted and appears he didn’t. At every stage this person appears to have made the “maximize money” decision instead of alternatives which could result in less job stress, but maximizing the focus on his family’s and his health. Was he given a shitty personal row to hoe, absolutely. Did he make it worse for himself…I think that’s a yes too.

netsharc 5y ago

TBH I also got a bit of a vibe of how the author seemed a bit whiny. But Amazon/Bezos has how many trillion dollars? He could afford a "well-being fund" and it wouldn't even hurt. But I guess that manager wasn't going to change Amazon, his job was to make his numbers look good and this depressed guy with a dying wife was making his job hard. There's a story about a Valve employee who got a paid extended leave when he got an illness: > In 2004, Wolpaw was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis. Expecting his condition to require a departure from the company, he spoke with managing director Gabe Newell, who surprised him by offering an extended leave with pay. "Your job is to get better," Newell said. "That is your job description at Valve. So go home to your wife and come back when you are better." Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_Wolpaw#Personal_life https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erik_Wolpaw#Personal_life

Tainnor 5y ago

He wrote in the article he was trying to perform, just that you can't really perform 100% in such a situation. A company that cares about its employees accepts that there can be personal reasons why someone might not be at their peak efficiency.

libertine 5y ago

Hmm there's something off: so Amazon expects the best out of people, even if that means sacrifices, in exchange of money... but people can't expected the same from Amazon? It doesn't sound balanced, if you're a valuable resource they should want you to stay and be at your best, even if that means giving you time. Else Amazon is yet another meat grinder, even for high performing people, where you as a person have no value to the company, except what you output. Because if something bad happens to you - which is a matter of time, because life throws curve balls constantly - you're done.

foldr 5y ago

Yes? What is not feasible about that? Amazon's behavior doesn't even make sense from a hard-headed business perspective. There's a good chance that this person could have continued working effectively if they'd just let him take a months' paid leave without piling the pressure on. Instead, Amazon faffed around for months with their sadistic extended firing process, which probably ended up costing way more than it would have cost to just give this person the time they needed to recuperate from their family crises.