11 ms·

GiveSendGo Has Been Hacked

freedomgranny 5y ago
Hacking is illegal. Canadian truckers are only demonstrating because they believe their rights are being infringed on. Their goal is not to overthrow the Canadian government. What other action should these truckers have taken? I don't know what rights Canadians have. I do know what rights Americans are supposed to have but I can totally seeing the left in the US responding in the same way to a Freedom demonstration here. The destruction and "obstruction" (think CHOP) was ok for BLM and Antifa but people (as in "of the people and for the people") protesting infringement on their rights, well that must be crushed.
- btbuildem 5y ago
  What are you on about? The core group of organizers have clearly stated that their goal is to overthrow the Canadian government: https://web.archive.org/web/20220201001209/https://canada-unity.com/mou/ https://web.archive.org/web/20220201001209/https://canada-un... The RCMP busted a heavily armed (for Canadian standards) cell of far-right extremists at the Coutts border blockade: https://twitter.com/antihateca/status/1493408315455549441?s=20&t=tbWP3B23wTK0zb3e42ponA https://twitter.com/antihateca/status/1493408315455549441?s=... It is suspected that the Ottawa occupation sites also harbor similar elements. "Canadian truckers" have been taken for a ride, it's been quite clear after the first week that truckers have very little to do with this beyond being a cover story. Canadian Trucking Association has publicly disavowed this, 90% of our truckers are vaccinated and at work. To be clear, there were no rights being infringed by the various health measures. There were privileges being denied, most definitely. Some people confuse the two. Of course now the situation has evolved past that, but this has been an extremely volatile three weeks and Canadian democracy is at stake here.
josephcsible 5y ago
It's people like these hackers who deserve to have the full force of the CFAA thrown at them, not people like Aaron Swartz.
- beebmam 5y ago
  Are there any laws that you would support to stop hackers from doing harm to others on the internet?
  - mieses 5y ago
    Your question is not that clever. Obviously this like everything else is better resolved without "the institutions".
- rei_ayanami 5y ago
  Its probably the government
- flamesofphx 5y ago
  Hackers like that though are more costly and harder to gather evidence against. I really think police now do cost benefit (At least in the us), before deciding if there going to do much in investigation. Then if they think there is external political, government, other large corporate involved, I would think they would cave. Some case with digital, they just find multiple traces and just give up... People forget that yeah leaving little or no evidence is great, but to stop or complicate the ability to convict, one can also intentionally contaminate a scene, or even overload it with garbage before and after. Conflicting statements, and a party can be great (As a metaphor)!!
rvz 5y ago
I don’t think anyone should celebrate hackers attacking donation websites these days. Such script-kiddie behaviour should be reported to the authorities and they will trace the attacks back to them. They always do.
- jagger27 5y ago
  - Helloworldboy 5y ago
  - rvz 5y ago
    As if the whole platform was specifically built for that event. Where does the law say that hacking websites you don’t like without their permission is OK then? If for whatever reason you don’t like what they are doing, just report that specific group to the authorities.
    - jagger27 5y ago
      I’m not particularly interested in having a “principled” conversation about laws and their enforcement when those occupying my city are breaking far more serious laws and continue to go unpunished.
      - rvz 5y ago
        So yes then? You think, it’s fine to attack and celebrate someone’s website that you don’t like being breached because somehow they have attracted other people you don’t like? Oh dear. Just as extreme as hacktivist groups like Anonymous then who everyone knows that they are on no-one’s side.
        yonaguska 5y ago
        I would hazard that "Anonymous" has probably been a state actor for a long time. At least partially.
decremental 5y ago
lettergram 5y ago
I can't help but suspect this is either the Canadian or U.S. government.
- refurb 5y ago
  If you had said this 5 years ago I would have replied with “tin foil hat time!” But after the last 5 years and the blatant lying by the media, the close relationship between the FBI/CIA and members of Congress and Dick Cheney getting an award from the Democrats makes me think you’re probably not too far off the mark.
  - larryflint 5y ago
    I'm with you man. Google Ray Epps.
- jcadam 5y ago
  Whether or not anyone is prosecuted over this hack (and doxxing) will be telling.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Dig1t 5y ago
They also took a dump of all donors info and are only offering it to journalists and researchers.. https://ddosecrets.com/wiki/GiveSendGo_Freedom_Convoy_donor_info https://ddosecrets.com/wiki/GiveSendGo_Freedom_Convoy_donor_... I can't believe the number of people celebrating this, its absolutely crazy to me. So many people liberally throwing around the word "nazi" and calling this an insurrection, just completely boggles the mind. Regardless of whether you agree about what the people are asking for, it seems grossly disingenuous to misrepresent what's going on like that. I'm starting to see who the bad guys really are here..
- ZoF 5y ago
- cloutchaser 5y ago
  Add this to the list of how hard it is to break the Silicon Valley (and their political allies) hegemony. Not only do you have AWS, App Store bans, email provider bans (mail chimp banned babylonbee for a while although claimed it was algorithmic), you also have to contend with building a product that is going to be attacked by hackers the second you are moderately successful. The only fair player I can see in this is cloudflare, at least they have some sort of principle of being an infrastructure provider and not siding with a certain political side.
  - lettergram 5y ago
    You sure about cloudflare? https://techcrunch.com/2017/08/17/cloudflare-ceo-calls-for-a-system-to-regulate-hateful-internet-content/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/08/17/cloudflare-ceo-calls-for-a...
    - cloutchaser 5y ago
      I am aware of this one and I think it’s an interesting case. I think 99% of people wouldn’t have an issue with this and stormfront probably does have people actually breaking the law. I also think it’s interesting how prince basically said - this is the ceo making a personal decision in the shower. That honesty was good, and at least it showed that prince was torn about it and admitted this is very hard and he will try and be an infrastructure provider in the future. This is much better than the coordinated attack of a faceless bureaucracy of tech companies like with Parler
throw138333 5y ago
sneak 5y ago
I think that rather than celebrating or condemning this, we should prepare, both personally/emotionally, as well as a society, for what will happen when the inevitable occurs: totally censorship-resistant payments that even governments cannot meaningfully stop (only hinder/make more inconvenient). This has already occurred, so we know unambiguously that it is coming. In the next ten years they will be available widely to everyone who wants them who has uncensored internet access. The integration of Mobilecoin with Signal is a good example. The wallets are pseudonymous, the chain has privacy built in, and it uses Signal's existing end-to-end privacy to arrange for coordinating payments between parties, such that the service has no idea what anyone's balances are or who is paying whom. You can't stop payments to anyone on the system without stopping the whole system. Regardless of how you feel about Signal, or Mobilecoin, or Signal's integration with Mobilecoin: this is a demo of the fact that end-user-accessible private payments is technically possible. It's only a matter of time now until that future is evenly distributed to everyone who wants to use it. You can, of course, think that Signal should be banned from the App Store. Perhaps it will be over this. People needing that functionality will switch to or augment with a platform that allows sideloading of apps. You can, of course, think that use of such completely unstoppable payment infrastructure should be prohibited as it eliminates existing government/legal control over who can pay whom and why. They could outlaw such payments, just as they successfully outlawed cocaine and speeding, but that doesn't stop them. Fact is, though, it is now technically possible, and the only effective counters are aggressive censorship of apps that implement it (which is in short order any e2e encrypted messenger), or general internet censorship that blocks certain protocols like these sorts of p2p payment systems. It's only a matter of time before these aren't going to be easily shutdown centralized websites. What does the world look like, then? Is that okay? Is that terribly bad? What are the potential upsides? What are the failure modes?
- btbuildem 5y ago
  One thing that made it work in this case was the ease of use. You can't expect the average Church Karen to sideload apps into a hacked phone. In the Freedom Convoy case, the PR went viral and lots of average people donated small amounts.
- ShamelessC 5y ago
bee_rider 5y ago
Have the mods been working overtime on this discussion or something? I see lots of concern about people celebrating this hack, and very limited actual celebration here.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  There's not that much celebration here on HN, but there's a ton on Twitter in reply to that tweet.
sinyug 5y ago
Last year, Trudeau and the western media supported the so-called "farmers protests" in India against the Indian government where roads around Delhi were blocked for months on end, hundreds of policemen were injured, people were lynched and secessionists were given free rein.[1] I guess it is only an "insurrection" if your own asshole is on fire. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_Indian_farmers%27_protest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_Indian_farme...

Hacking is illegal. Canadian truckers are only demonstrating because they believe their rights are being infringed on. Their goal is not to overthrow the Canadian government. What other action should these truckers have taken? I don't know what rights Canadians have. I do know what rights Americans are supposed to have but I can totally seeing the left in the US responding in the same way to a Freedom demonstration here. The destruction and "obstruction" (think CHOP) was ok for BLM and Antifa but people (as in "of the people and for the people") protesting infringement on their rights, well that must be crushed.

btbuildem 5y ago
What are you on about? The core group of organizers have clearly stated that their goal is to overthrow the Canadian government: https://web.archive.org/web/20220201001209/https://canada-unity.com/mou/ https://web.archive.org/web/20220201001209/https://canada-un... The RCMP busted a heavily armed (for Canadian standards) cell of far-right extremists at the Coutts border blockade: https://twitter.com/antihateca/status/1493408315455549441?s=20&t=tbWP3B23wTK0zb3e42ponA https://twitter.com/antihateca/status/1493408315455549441?s=... It is suspected that the Ottawa occupation sites also harbor similar elements. "Canadian truckers" have been taken for a ride, it's been quite clear after the first week that truckers have very little to do with this beyond being a cover story. Canadian Trucking Association has publicly disavowed this, 90% of our truckers are vaccinated and at work. To be clear, there were no rights being infringed by the various health measures. There were privileges being denied, most definitely. Some people confuse the two. Of course now the situation has evolved past that, but this has been an extremely volatile three weeks and Canadian democracy is at stake here.

josephcsible 5y ago

It's people like these hackers who deserve to have the full force of the CFAA thrown at them, not people like Aaron Swartz.

beebmam 5y ago
Are there any laws that you would support to stop hackers from doing harm to others on the internet?
- mieses 5y ago
  Your question is not that clever. Obviously this like everything else is better resolved without "the institutions".
rei_ayanami 5y ago
Its probably the government
flamesofphx 5y ago
Hackers like that though are more costly and harder to gather evidence against. I really think police now do cost benefit (At least in the us), before deciding if there going to do much in investigation. Then if they think there is external political, government, other large corporate involved, I would think they would cave. Some case with digital, they just find multiple traces and just give up... People forget that yeah leaving little or no evidence is great, but to stop or complicate the ability to convict, one can also intentionally contaminate a scene, or even overload it with garbage before and after. Conflicting statements, and a party can be great (As a metaphor)!!

rvz 5y ago

I don’t think anyone should celebrate hackers attacking donation websites these days. Such script-kiddie behaviour should be reported to the authorities and they will trace the attacks back to them. They always do.

jagger27 5y ago
- Helloworldboy 5y ago
- rvz 5y ago
  As if the whole platform was specifically built for that event. Where does the law say that hacking websites you don’t like without their permission is OK then? If for whatever reason you don’t like what they are doing, just report that specific group to the authorities.
  - jagger27 5y ago
    I’m not particularly interested in having a “principled” conversation about laws and their enforcement when those occupying my city are breaking far more serious laws and continue to go unpunished.
    - rvz 5y ago
      So yes then? You think, it’s fine to attack and celebrate someone’s website that you don’t like being breached because somehow they have attracted other people you don’t like? Oh dear. Just as extreme as hacktivist groups like Anonymous then who everyone knows that they are on no-one’s side.
      - yonaguska 5y ago
        I would hazard that "Anonymous" has probably been a state actor for a long time. At least partially.

decremental 5y ago

lettergram 5y ago

I can't help but suspect this is either the Canadian or U.S. government.

refurb 5y ago
If you had said this 5 years ago I would have replied with “tin foil hat time!” But after the last 5 years and the blatant lying by the media, the close relationship between the FBI/CIA and members of Congress and Dick Cheney getting an award from the Democrats makes me think you’re probably not too far off the mark.
- larryflint 5y ago
  I'm with you man. Google Ray Epps.
jcadam 5y ago
Whether or not anyone is prosecuted over this hack (and doxxing) will be telling.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

Dig1t 5y ago

They also took a dump of all donors info and are only offering it to journalists and researchers.. https://ddosecrets.com/wiki/GiveSendGo_Freedom_Convoy_donor_info https://ddosecrets.com/wiki/GiveSendGo_Freedom_Convoy_donor_... I can't believe the number of people celebrating this, its absolutely crazy to me. So many people liberally throwing around the word "nazi" and calling this an insurrection, just completely boggles the mind. Regardless of whether you agree about what the people are asking for, it seems grossly disingenuous to misrepresent what's going on like that. I'm starting to see who the bad guys really are here..

ZoF 5y ago
cloutchaser 5y ago
Add this to the list of how hard it is to break the Silicon Valley (and their political allies) hegemony. Not only do you have AWS, App Store bans, email provider bans (mail chimp banned babylonbee for a while although claimed it was algorithmic), you also have to contend with building a product that is going to be attacked by hackers the second you are moderately successful. The only fair player I can see in this is cloudflare, at least they have some sort of principle of being an infrastructure provider and not siding with a certain political side.
- lettergram 5y ago
  You sure about cloudflare? https://techcrunch.com/2017/08/17/cloudflare-ceo-calls-for-a-system-to-regulate-hateful-internet-content/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/08/17/cloudflare-ceo-calls-for-a...
  - cloutchaser 5y ago
    I am aware of this one and I think it’s an interesting case. I think 99% of people wouldn’t have an issue with this and stormfront probably does have people actually breaking the law. I also think it’s interesting how prince basically said - this is the ceo making a personal decision in the shower. That honesty was good, and at least it showed that prince was torn about it and admitted this is very hard and he will try and be an infrastructure provider in the future. This is much better than the coordinated attack of a faceless bureaucracy of tech companies like with Parler

throw138333 5y ago

sneak 5y ago

I think that rather than celebrating or condemning this, we should prepare, both personally/emotionally, as well as a society, for what will happen when the inevitable occurs: totally censorship-resistant payments that even governments cannot meaningfully stop (only hinder/make more inconvenient). This has already occurred, so we know unambiguously that it is coming. In the next ten years they will be available widely to everyone who wants them who has uncensored internet access. The integration of Mobilecoin with Signal is a good example. The wallets are pseudonymous, the chain has privacy built in, and it uses Signal's existing end-to-end privacy to arrange for coordinating payments between parties, such that the service has no idea what anyone's balances are or who is paying whom. You can't stop payments to anyone on the system without stopping the whole system. Regardless of how you feel about Signal, or Mobilecoin, or Signal's integration with Mobilecoin: this is a demo of the fact that end-user-accessible private payments is technically possible. It's only a matter of time now until that future is evenly distributed to everyone who wants to use it. You can, of course, think that Signal should be banned from the App Store. Perhaps it will be over this. People needing that functionality will switch to or augment with a platform that allows sideloading of apps. You can, of course, think that use of such completely unstoppable payment infrastructure should be prohibited as it eliminates existing government/legal control over who can pay whom and why. They could outlaw such payments, just as they successfully outlawed cocaine and speeding, but that doesn't stop them. Fact is, though, it is now technically possible, and the only effective counters are aggressive censorship of apps that implement it (which is in short order any e2e encrypted messenger), or general internet censorship that blocks certain protocols like these sorts of p2p payment systems. It's only a matter of time before these aren't going to be easily shutdown centralized websites. What does the world look like, then? Is that okay? Is that terribly bad? What are the potential upsides? What are the failure modes?

btbuildem 5y ago
One thing that made it work in this case was the ease of use. You can't expect the average Church Karen to sideload apps into a hacked phone. In the Freedom Convoy case, the PR went viral and lots of average people donated small amounts.
ShamelessC 5y ago

bee_rider 5y ago

Have the mods been working overtime on this discussion or something? I see lots of concern about people celebrating this hack, and very limited actual celebration here.

josephcsible 5y ago
There's not that much celebration here on HN, but there's a ton on Twitter in reply to that tweet.

sinyug 5y ago

Last year, Trudeau and the western media supported the so-called "farmers protests" in India against the Indian government where roads around Delhi were blocked for months on end, hundreds of policemen were injured, people were lynched and secessionists were given free rein.[1] I guess it is only an "insurrection" if your own asshole is on fire. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_Indian_farmers%27_protest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_Indian_farme...