3 ms·

So hospitals and drug companies in the US are operating at peak efficiency without bilking anyone unnecessarily and yet a huge variety of procedures are more ex

So hospitals and drug companies in the US are operating at peak efficiency without bilking anyone unnecessarily and yet a huge variety of procedures are more expensive than in the rest of the developed world. That definitely passes a smell test.

s1artibartfast 5y ago
A big driver is staff salary, which are 2-3X that in Europe. Another is technology with more expensive procedures, implants, tools, ect.
- fastball 5y ago
  So GC claimed that some US Medicare/aid prices would cause HCW to make less than minimum wage, yet now you say salaries are 2-3x higher than Europe, which generally has higher minimum wages. Somehow all these excuses are still not jiving.
  - s1artibartfast 5y ago
    Here are some easy graphs for compensation: https://www.physiciansweekly.com/how-do-us-physician-salaries-compare-with-those-abroad https://www.physiciansweekly.com/how-do-us-physician-salarie... https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/a44d2e24-en/index.html?itemId=/content/component/a44d2e24-en https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/a44d2e24-en/index.html?i... Physicians per capita: https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/11/why-are-american-doctors-paid-so-damn-much/ https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/11/why-are-ameri...
  - zdragnar 5y ago
    To clarify my point, the prices causing less than minimum wage income were for those procedures only. Other procedures paid more, but often not enough. On average, Medicare pays about 80% of what an insurance company will typically pay. Try finding a doctor while on Medicare; depending on region and specialty, only 2/5 to 2/3 doctors will take patients on Medicare. One other thing you may have missed: salaries are for doctors working at hospitals or clinics. Doctors working at private practices typically are self employed (or co-operate as a partner) and so are much more directly impacted by low payment rates. Edit: it is worth pointing out that the requirements to become a doctor are pretty extreme. You first need a 4 year bachelor's degree, then need to go to medical school (costing a total anywhere from 150k to 400k on the extreme high end), followed by residency (basically, a paid internship at a salary lower than a full doctor) lasting 3-7 years.
    - bmarquez 5y ago
      > Try finding a doctor while on Medicare; depending on region and specialty, only 2/5 to 2/3 doctors will take patients on Medicare. One thing that I've noticed is that there are private practice doctors that will take Medicare/Medicaid but the wait time for an appointment is longer compared to private insurance. It's like they decided to space out the less-profitable patients to maintain their margins. (I knew a few people who had the same primary care physician but different insurances.)

s1artibartfast 5y ago

A big driver is staff salary, which are 2-3X that in Europe. Another is technology with more expensive procedures, implants, tools, ect.

fastball 5y ago
So GC claimed that some US Medicare/aid prices would cause HCW to make less than minimum wage, yet now you say salaries are 2-3x higher than Europe, which generally has higher minimum wages. Somehow all these excuses are still not jiving.
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  Here are some easy graphs for compensation: https://www.physiciansweekly.com/how-do-us-physician-salaries-compare-with-those-abroad https://www.physiciansweekly.com/how-do-us-physician-salarie... https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/a44d2e24-en/index.html?itemId=/content/component/a44d2e24-en https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/a44d2e24-en/index.html?i... Physicians per capita: https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/11/why-are-american-doctors-paid-so-damn-much/ https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2013/11/why-are-ameri...
- zdragnar 5y ago
  To clarify my point, the prices causing less than minimum wage income were for those procedures only. Other procedures paid more, but often not enough. On average, Medicare pays about 80% of what an insurance company will typically pay. Try finding a doctor while on Medicare; depending on region and specialty, only 2/5 to 2/3 doctors will take patients on Medicare. One other thing you may have missed: salaries are for doctors working at hospitals or clinics. Doctors working at private practices typically are self employed (or co-operate as a partner) and so are much more directly impacted by low payment rates. Edit: it is worth pointing out that the requirements to become a doctor are pretty extreme. You first need a 4 year bachelor's degree, then need to go to medical school (costing a total anywhere from 150k to 400k on the extreme high end), followed by residency (basically, a paid internship at a salary lower than a full doctor) lasting 3-7 years.
  - bmarquez 5y ago
    > Try finding a doctor while on Medicare; depending on region and specialty, only 2/5 to 2/3 doctors will take patients on Medicare. One thing that I've noticed is that there are private practice doctors that will take Medicare/Medicaid but the wait time for an appointment is longer compared to private insurance. It's like they decided to space out the less-profitable patients to maintain their margins. (I knew a few people who had the same primary care physician but different insurances.)