4 ms·

The rhetoric has moved on to "prevents severe infection" as the reason you have to prove you've been vaccinated.

xupybd 5y ago
Okay. I'm not sure about the United States but here in NZ you can't enter a restaurant if you don't have a vaccine. You can't attend a funeral with over 25 people while unvaccinated. You can't attend or have a wedding with over 25 people. I find it hard to think these restrictions can be justified as a public safety measure if they don't lower transmission. Limiting severe infection is up to the individual. They seem more like coercion to me. I think the government should be in the business of education not coercion. I'm triple vaccinated because I think it's the best choice for me, yet I have no right to make that choice for anyone else.
- berenza 5y ago
  i'm not vaccinated and will not be getting the jab, and i think vaccine mandates are a laughably bad idea, but you could easily just say less severe disease = less pressure on public health systems and "justify" it that way.
  - anoncovid2022 5y ago
    This was my understanding of why it's the way it is in NZ. NZ's hospital system was pretty full before covid, and from my understanding, wouldn't take much to get overwhelmed with covid cases. On the flip side, there are so few unvaccinated now, that I don't know how big of an effect the measures have with regards to unvaccinated restrictions. Having said that, personally I've not had any issues with the current restrictions, they don't impact what I would usually do. But I'm probably the exception, not the rule when it comes to unvaxed people. I'm of mostly of the opinion, the restrictions are of a net positive for us, if you're not vaxxed I would avoid gatherings, especially indoors. Seems kinda reckless if you're going to parties etc while unvaxxed. *not vaccinated, mostly because I don't socialise much so don't see the need, not until I want to fly. I see it as, the longer I can wait, the more we'll know about the vaccine, and hopefully there will be better (more effective) options.
    - xupybd 5y ago
      I guess my point is why does a stretch on the health system warrant removal of personal freedoms. We don't do it for other conditions.
  - xupybd 5y ago
    Why don't we do the same with overweight people or smokers. Sorry you can't go to a restaurant or funeral unless you lose weight or quit smoking. That would take pressure off the public health system.
    - sofixa 5y ago
      Is there an epidemic of smokers or overweight people clogging up to all hospital beds, as was the case with Covid a few times in a few different countries? No? Then it's not comparable.
      - berenza 5y ago
        obesity- and smoking-related illnesses take up a huge share of available health care resources. to say they are "clogging up" hospital beds is a little insensitive though.
        sofixa 5y ago
        Patients with heavy Covid cases ( like the ones that needed ventilators to breathe) took all the place in many hospitals and healthcare systems, and then some ( temporary and military hospitals were deployed to help with that). It's not even remotely comparable.
        berenza 5y ago
        i recall looking over the occupancy numbers for the temporary hospitals and hospital ships deployed as a response to the 2020 outbreaks in the UK and US, and they were mostly empty. sadly i cannot find that info now so i guess i'll just have to shrug about it. and i assume "took all the place in many hospitals and healthcare systems" is an exaggeration. i would still have to assert the health care costs to society of obesity and smoking are comparable to the costs of acute covid surges though.
        sofixa 5y ago

Okay. I'm not sure about the United States but here in NZ you can't enter a restaurant if you don't have a vaccine. You can't attend a funeral with over 25 people while unvaccinated. You can't attend or have a wedding with over 25 people. I find it hard to think these restrictions can be justified as a public safety measure if they don't lower transmission. Limiting severe infection is up to the individual. They seem more like coercion to me. I think the government should be in the business of education not coercion. I'm triple vaccinated because I think it's the best choice for me, yet I have no right to make that choice for anyone else.

berenza 5y ago
i'm not vaccinated and will not be getting the jab, and i think vaccine mandates are a laughably bad idea, but you could easily just say less severe disease = less pressure on public health systems and "justify" it that way.
- anoncovid2022 5y ago
  This was my understanding of why it's the way it is in NZ. NZ's hospital system was pretty full before covid, and from my understanding, wouldn't take much to get overwhelmed with covid cases. On the flip side, there are so few unvaccinated now, that I don't know how big of an effect the measures have with regards to unvaccinated restrictions. Having said that, personally I've not had any issues with the current restrictions, they don't impact what I would usually do. But I'm probably the exception, not the rule when it comes to unvaxed people. I'm of mostly of the opinion, the restrictions are of a net positive for us, if you're not vaxxed I would avoid gatherings, especially indoors. Seems kinda reckless if you're going to parties etc while unvaxxed. *not vaccinated, mostly because I don't socialise much so don't see the need, not until I want to fly. I see it as, the longer I can wait, the more we'll know about the vaccine, and hopefully there will be better (more effective) options.
  - xupybd 5y ago
    I guess my point is why does a stretch on the health system warrant removal of personal freedoms. We don't do it for other conditions.
- xupybd 5y ago
  Why don't we do the same with overweight people or smokers. Sorry you can't go to a restaurant or funeral unless you lose weight or quit smoking. That would take pressure off the public health system.
  - sofixa 5y ago
    Is there an epidemic of smokers or overweight people clogging up to all hospital beds, as was the case with Covid a few times in a few different countries? No? Then it's not comparable.
    - berenza 5y ago
      obesity- and smoking-related illnesses take up a huge share of available health care resources. to say they are "clogging up" hospital beds is a little insensitive though.
      - sofixa 5y ago
        Patients with heavy Covid cases ( like the ones that needed ventilators to breathe) took all the place in many hospitals and healthcare systems, and then some ( temporary and military hospitals were deployed to help with that). It's not even remotely comparable.
        berenza 5y ago
        i recall looking over the occupancy numbers for the temporary hospitals and hospital ships deployed as a response to the 2020 outbreaks in the UK and US, and they were mostly empty. sadly i cannot find that info now so i guess i'll just have to shrug about it. and i assume "took all the place in many hospitals and healthcare systems" is an exaggeration. i would still have to assert the health care costs to society of obesity and smoking are comparable to the costs of acute covid surges though.
        sofixa 5y ago