5 ms·

I agree. I work in tech and, outside of work, I'm refurbishing my house. I'm enjoying the refurbishment but would I do a trade as a full time job? Hell no. Cra

I agree. I work in tech and, outside of work, I'm refurbishing my house. I'm enjoying the refurbishment but would I do a trade as a full time job? Hell no. Crawling around in my loft sistering joists is satisfying work but also, if it were to become the kind of thing I did over a long period of time, would 100% wreck my knees. And that's just one downside. There are plenty more: e.g., all the ancillary guff you have to do (same as you have with contracting really), and then dealing with the general public and having people phone you at all hours of the day and night looking for estimates and quotes. No thanks.

user3939382 5y ago
Get yourself a pair of these https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001P30BQE/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001P30BQE/ I use them all the time. Cable management under desks, tile work, electrical. I wonder how I went so long without them.
- bartread 5y ago
  Thanks for the recommendation. Believe it or not I have a pair of exactly those but unfortunately I hate them because they rub my knees nearly raw when worn for prolonged periods. In the end I've bought an old skool rubber kneeler, which seems to work better, but of course you have to continually move it around, which isn't always convenient (or even possible).
ElKrist 5y ago
I share your view about making estimates and quotes. I get contractors to my house to help me renovate. It's just standard practice to get multiple tradesmen (>=3) to make a quote for the same job. I do that whenever the job is above $5000. I assume they must have a lot of other clients who do the same for lower thresholds too. I don't know the margins in each trade but I guess at least half of the quote is costs? For the transport, the time on-site, the time to make a quote (depends a lot on the job).. I believe they each spend at least half a day on this. Then you add various time-consuming items like phone calls, people canceling appointments, people changing their minds about what they want, time to chase unpaid invoices, dealing with other tradesmen on some projects... All of this for a 1/3 chance of getting the job ? Clearly some tradesmen are doing very well, but let's not pretend it's easy. As a contractor in software, I realized quickly I could and would only bill on a time-based approach. I've gone through the hassle of making a quote for a project with a lot of uncertainties and spanning over multiple months. At the end the client played with my weakness of being still quite young. He was older and much more experienced in legal & contract matters so he kept adding items pretending my contract was not fulfilled otherwise.. I ended up OK but would never go back to that anymore Now I only have to negotiate once or twice a year (with my latest and ongoing client it's been multiple years so even better) when tradesmen have to do that multiple times a week
- jaclaz 5y ago
  >I don't know the margins in each trade but I guess at least half of the quote is costs? Costs are likely more 80-85% in building/construction, margins are thin. Electricians/plumbers may have something more, but not much.
- otachack 5y ago
  Ditto on the contract experience you had where you gave a rough project-wide estimate. I had the exact same position. I didn't end up finishing the contract because the client refused to fulfill their end of the first, and only, contract. If I ever get another contract I'll be doing it your way: time-based via a settled hourly rate.
SenHeng 5y ago
I've done the same time. Spent nights and weekends remodeling my home over 5 years. It was never 'finished', and the quality was never as good as the bits that I did hire out. The entire time I felt like I was living in a construction site. When I got my 2nd home, I hired pros. The pros tell me they want their kids in my job.
letitbeirie 5y ago
Most things "simple living" - working with your hands, living off the land, camping, etc. - are only enjoyable if they're optional.

user3939382 5y ago

Get yourself a pair of these https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001P30BQE/ https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001P30BQE/ I use them all the time. Cable management under desks, tile work, electrical. I wonder how I went so long without them.

bartread 5y ago
Thanks for the recommendation. Believe it or not I have a pair of exactly those but unfortunately I hate them because they rub my knees nearly raw when worn for prolonged periods. In the end I've bought an old skool rubber kneeler, which seems to work better, but of course you have to continually move it around, which isn't always convenient (or even possible).

ElKrist 5y ago

I share your view about making estimates and quotes. I get contractors to my house to help me renovate. It's just standard practice to get multiple tradesmen (>=3) to make a quote for the same job. I do that whenever the job is above $5000. I assume they must have a lot of other clients who do the same for lower thresholds too. I don't know the margins in each trade but I guess at least half of the quote is costs? For the transport, the time on-site, the time to make a quote (depends a lot on the job).. I believe they each spend at least half a day on this. Then you add various time-consuming items like phone calls, people canceling appointments, people changing their minds about what they want, time to chase unpaid invoices, dealing with other tradesmen on some projects... All of this for a 1/3 chance of getting the job ? Clearly some tradesmen are doing very well, but let's not pretend it's easy. As a contractor in software, I realized quickly I could and would only bill on a time-based approach. I've gone through the hassle of making a quote for a project with a lot of uncertainties and spanning over multiple months. At the end the client played with my weakness of being still quite young. He was older and much more experienced in legal & contract matters so he kept adding items pretending my contract was not fulfilled otherwise.. I ended up OK but would never go back to that anymore Now I only have to negotiate once or twice a year (with my latest and ongoing client it's been multiple years so even better) when tradesmen have to do that multiple times a week

jaclaz 5y ago
>I don't know the margins in each trade but I guess at least half of the quote is costs? Costs are likely more 80-85% in building/construction, margins are thin. Electricians/plumbers may have something more, but not much.
otachack 5y ago
Ditto on the contract experience you had where you gave a rough project-wide estimate. I had the exact same position. I didn't end up finishing the contract because the client refused to fulfill their end of the first, and only, contract. If I ever get another contract I'll be doing it your way: time-based via a settled hourly rate.

SenHeng 5y ago

I've done the same time. Spent nights and weekends remodeling my home over 5 years. It was never 'finished', and the quality was never as good as the bits that I did hire out. The entire time I felt like I was living in a construction site. When I got my 2nd home, I hired pros. The pros tell me they want their kids in my job.

letitbeirie 5y ago

Most things "simple living" - working with your hands, living off the land, camping, etc. - are only enjoyable if they're optional.