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there is a lot of mistrust regarding Tether. People kind of prefer to switch over to BUSD, USDC, GUSD which are backed 1:1 with real USD. Tether is just a temp

there is a lot of mistrust regarding Tether. People kind of prefer to switch over to BUSD, USDC, GUSD which are backed 1:1 with real USD. Tether is just a temp variable for trading. But, if Tether goes down it will be bad news but not enough to destroy the whole market. USDC is gaining ground pretty rapidly.

alexb_ 5y ago
What proof is there exactly that USDC is different?
- benreesman 5y ago
  Random audits by E&Y.
  - hiq 5y ago
    According to your link below (https://www.centre.io/usdc-transparency https://www.centre.io/usdc-transparency) these are not audits, but attestations. Tether has plenty of these as well.
    - benreesman 5y ago
      I’m not an accountant but Google seems to think those things are substantially similar: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-an-audit-and-an-attestation https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-an-audi... Not being an accountant I rely a lot on inside baseball, but I know some whales and I’ve never heard Tether described as credibly backed.
      - hiq 5y ago
        Not an accountant either, but from past threads they seem to be quite different: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=attestation%20audit%20tether&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... See in particular this comment from a user who claims to be a former auditor: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27532670 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27532670
        benreesman 5y ago
        That comment was very enlightening and much better than anything on my first page of Google results. Thank you for pointing me to it.
  - jqpabc123 5y ago
    Reference? Show one random audit by E&Y.
    - benreesman 5y ago
      My mistake, it’s Grant Thornton: https://blog.coinbase.com/fact-check-usd-coin-is-the-largest-regulated-stablecoin-in-the-world-6e7f3c06cbf0 https://blog.coinbase.com/fact-check-usd-coin-is-the-largest.... Now I’m no CoinBase apologist, they’re accused of stuff that would make Dutsche blush, but USDC is a completely different animal than Tether. I won’t take payment someone’s share of dinner in USDT or ETH for that matter, I will happily hold USDC for short periods of time.
      - aaaaaaaaata 5y ago
        You'll hold USDC for short periods, but not ETH? Because of volatility, or something else?
        benreesman 5y ago
        Yeah, I'm generally bullish on `ETH` long-term, but it's a vague sentiment not a tradable thesis. The concrete reason is that I'm not (nor interested in being) a currency speculator, and so I do all my currency speculation in the form of being at least somewhat long the one currency I understand reasonably well, which is `USD`.
      - jqpabc123 5y ago
        So just to recap --- they're not random, they're not really audits and they're not done by E&Y. Basically, you're just trusting Coinbase.
        benreesman 5y ago
        I'd propose a different summary: I'd rather trust a publicly-traded company in the United States which has serious accountants certifying the validity of their books and plenty of assets subject to seizure in the the same jurisdiction I live in than some guys who at least one state has already decided don't have the money. I'm working on my HN etiquette but it's been a long week. If I act a like a fucking smartass, call me on it, and I'll return the favor. Don't be a smartass.
  - alexb_ 5y ago
    Did the 2008 subprime mortgage crisis completely go out of the consciousness of everyone? Private companies doing "audits" on securities that they have an incentive to say are better than they actually are is not going to give anything worth a damn. If it's not a government audit, I don't buy it.
    - benreesman 5y ago
      I don’t think any part of the financial system, conventional or crypto is immune from shady dealings. But everyone who didn’t just fall off a truck knows Tether is capitalized at maybe 30%, and there’s a lot of mediocre commercial paper in the assets it does hold. USDC and Tether are completely different asset classes. USDT is casino chips you have to buy to play the low-cap alt-coin slot machine. USDC has a de facto address within reach of the FBI.
      - drsnow 5y ago
        "USDC has a de facto address within reach of the FBI." What does this mean?
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
        andruby 5y ago
        That Coinbase, the US company, can be held accountable for USDC, and falls within the reach of the FBI. If USDT fails and goes to 0, people will lose their money, and probably no government will be able to go after the creators of USDT (Bitfinex?) and their "collateral". If USDC fails, the US government can actually make Coinbase responsible. And that's a public company with a 51B USD market cap. As a holder of USDC, you could reasonably expect to see some money back.
        jqpabc123 5y ago
        ... you could reasonably expect to see some money back. Maybe, maybe not. USDC is not legal tender. Coinbase could easily argue it is nothing but monopoly money with a value of $0USD.
jqpabc123 5y ago
Each month, we publish attestation reports by Grant Thornton regarding the reserve balances backing USDC. The key item here is "attestation report". What does this mean? It means those issuing the report have no reason to doubt what they are being told/given. They haven't actually verified/audited anything. Tether paid someone to issue some of these as well.

alexb_ 5y ago

What proof is there exactly that USDC is different?

benreesman 5y ago
Random audits by E&Y.
- hiq 5y ago
  According to your link below (https://www.centre.io/usdc-transparency https://www.centre.io/usdc-transparency) these are not audits, but attestations. Tether has plenty of these as well.
  - benreesman 5y ago
    I’m not an accountant but Google seems to think those things are substantially similar: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-an-audit-and-an-attestation https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-an-audi... Not being an accountant I rely a lot on inside baseball, but I know some whales and I’ve never heard Tether described as credibly backed.
    - hiq 5y ago
      Not an accountant either, but from past threads they seem to be quite different: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=attestation%20audit%20tether&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... See in particular this comment from a user who claims to be a former auditor: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27532670 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27532670
      - benreesman 5y ago
        That comment was very enlightening and much better than anything on my first page of Google results. Thank you for pointing me to it.
- jqpabc123 5y ago
  Reference? Show one random audit by E&Y.
  - benreesman 5y ago
    My mistake, it’s Grant Thornton: https://blog.coinbase.com/fact-check-usd-coin-is-the-largest-regulated-stablecoin-in-the-world-6e7f3c06cbf0 https://blog.coinbase.com/fact-check-usd-coin-is-the-largest.... Now I’m no CoinBase apologist, they’re accused of stuff that would make Dutsche blush, but USDC is a completely different animal than Tether. I won’t take payment someone’s share of dinner in USDT or ETH for that matter, I will happily hold USDC for short periods of time.
    - aaaaaaaaata 5y ago
      You'll hold USDC for short periods, but not ETH? Because of volatility, or something else?
      - benreesman 5y ago
        Yeah, I'm generally bullish on `ETH` long-term, but it's a vague sentiment not a tradable thesis. The concrete reason is that I'm not (nor interested in being) a currency speculator, and so I do all my currency speculation in the form of being at least somewhat long the one currency I understand reasonably well, which is `USD`.
    - jqpabc123 5y ago
      So just to recap --- they're not random, they're not really audits and they're not done by E&Y. Basically, you're just trusting Coinbase.
      - benreesman 5y ago
        I'd propose a different summary: I'd rather trust a publicly-traded company in the United States which has serious accountants certifying the validity of their books and plenty of assets subject to seizure in the the same jurisdiction I live in than some guys who at least one state has already decided don't have the money. I'm working on my HN etiquette but it's been a long week. If I act a like a fucking smartass, call me on it, and I'll return the favor. Don't be a smartass.
- alexb_ 5y ago
  Did the 2008 subprime mortgage crisis completely go out of the consciousness of everyone? Private companies doing "audits" on securities that they have an incentive to say are better than they actually are is not going to give anything worth a damn. If it's not a government audit, I don't buy it.
  - benreesman 5y ago
    I don’t think any part of the financial system, conventional or crypto is immune from shady dealings. But everyone who didn’t just fall off a truck knows Tether is capitalized at maybe 30%, and there’s a lot of mediocre commercial paper in the assets it does hold. USDC and Tether are completely different asset classes. USDT is casino chips you have to buy to play the low-cap alt-coin slot machine. USDC has a de facto address within reach of the FBI.
    - drsnow 5y ago
      "USDC has a de facto address within reach of the FBI." What does this mean?
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - andruby 5y ago
        That Coinbase, the US company, can be held accountable for USDC, and falls within the reach of the FBI. If USDT fails and goes to 0, people will lose their money, and probably no government will be able to go after the creators of USDT (Bitfinex?) and their "collateral". If USDC fails, the US government can actually make Coinbase responsible. And that's a public company with a 51B USD market cap. As a holder of USDC, you could reasonably expect to see some money back.
        jqpabc123 5y ago
        ... you could reasonably expect to see some money back. Maybe, maybe not. USDC is not legal tender. Coinbase could easily argue it is nothing but monopoly money with a value of $0USD.

jqpabc123 5y ago

Each month, we publish attestation reports by Grant Thornton regarding the reserve balances backing USDC. The key item here is "attestation report". What does this mean? It means those issuing the report have no reason to doubt what they are being told/given. They haven't actually verified/audited anything. Tether paid someone to issue some of these as well.