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Good news! Postgresql scales really well, and will always be open source. Plus, it has more features and great compliance with the SQL standard.

justin_vanw 15y ago
Wow, someone actually modded my parent post down. All I can say is, Haters gonna Hate, Mysql users gonna wait. That is a reference to waiting for queries to finish. Mysql is slow.
- there 15y ago
  mysql being or not being slow, along with postgresql scaling well, have nothing to do with the story being posted. your comments are being downvoted for being off-topic.
  - justin_vanw 15y ago
    The point of the article is that basic functionality you need to get MySQL to scale well are no longer available as 'open source', but only in the enterprise product. That seems to touch on 'open source' postgres scaling, as well as mysql being slow (well, unless you pay for enterprise it seems).
- alnayyir 15y ago
  You're off topic, take this >Haters gonna Hate back to the rubbish bin you found in and don't come back. Mindless, off-topic propaganda isn't welcome here. I, for one, would like to see more migration away from MySQL, but that doesn't mean you get to act like a total nob. Cue PG telling me to shut up again while I'm taking out the trash.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
    - alnayyir 15y ago
      What about the threads on this website say we care for humor or sarcasm? This isn't Reddit or 4chan. Stop pretending it is. People are here to better themselves, to learn, and quite possibly, to make a lot of fucking money. We aren't here to have a karma circlejerk over how absurdly clever or funny we can be by recalling a repetitive meme. Fuck. Off.
amccloud 15y ago
I'd love to migrate to postgresql. Unfortunately none of the published tools work well.
- Roboprog 15y ago
  OK, I'll bite: what are the tools that MySQL is supporting that PostgreSQL isn't? PHP blog generation software, or some lower level, more general purpose tool???
  - MostAwesomeDude 15y ago
    The biggest one is PHPMyAdmin. LAMP's a pervasive thing. (Not that I like LAMP, mind you, but it's important to be aware of why Pg hasn't made large dents in the MySQL market share over the past decade.)
    - jwingy 15y ago
      phppgadmin? I've used both (using phppgadmin right now), and they're similar enough. It's not as nice as phpmyadmin, but that shouldn't be a determining factor over whether to use mysql over postgresql.
    - Roboprog 15y ago
      Thanks for the feedback. That explains a lot then. I always preferred to use the command line, so that I could either make scripts, or at least screen shots, of changes made. Thus, my utter lack of concern about the admin GUIs. PostgreSQL has a kick-ass command line tool, with online help, GNU readline (including auto-complete), annd good output formatting options. Contrast with Oracle's sql*plus tool (yee-UCK!). I seem to remember mysql having at least readline, but not sure about the rest (probably comparable, but who knows).
  - amccloud 15y ago
    I should clarify. None of the tools for migrating my (rather simple) mysql database to pg work well or at all... But on that note PgAdmin3 is pretty crap. At least on my mac.
socratic 15y ago
You're certainly not alone in hoping that MySQL loses market share to PostgreSQL under Oracle's stewardship. I've always assumed that MySQL has been more prevalent due to some combination of historically earlier user friendliness, an incompatible SQL implementation, and feedback effects related to the previous two factors. That said, is there something that would be lost if everyone just switched from MySQL to PostgreSQL tomorrow? What benefits does MySQL have over PostgreSQL these days?
- sjwright 15y ago
  Momentum and familiarity. I run a big website and would love to switch; the only thing stopping me is that I'd have to manually fix hundreds of carefully hand-crafted queries to support pg syntax. If someone wrote a "MySQL emulator" layer for postgres, I'd switch tomorrow. (And I'd work quickly to progressively replace emulated calls with real pg SQL -- it's a lot easier to justify the effort after you make the switch than before!)
  - justin_vanw 15y ago
    It really depends how 'carefully crafted' your queries are. If there are things like index hints, you can just strip them out. If you are using non-standard mysql specific syntax, that will be a bit of a pain, but it won't take more than a day or two to fix a few hundred queries. Where you are going to experience the most pain is that MySQL lets you write idiotic queries like this: SELECT id, last_name FROM some_table GROUP BY last_name; That is not valid SQL, for good reason. Other things that will bite you: http://andreas.scherbaum.la/blog/archives/657-PostgreSQL-9.0-Includes-the-new-MySQL-Emulation-Layer.html http://andreas.scherbaum.la/blog/archives/657-PostgreSQL-9.0... God, looking at that link makes me so sorry for anyone using MySQL. Life is too short for that.
    - rudiger 15y ago
      Why isn't that valid SQL?
      - 15y ago
rickmb 15y ago
One of things that puts me off Postgres is the constantly shouting "Postgres is better" (and please, we already know in which areas Postgres is better, nobody is debating that) without ever addressing the actual needs of the vast majority of MySQL-users. Most of them aren't DBA's, and they don't need to be for the purpose for which they use the DB. For them, MySQL is a tool that just works, without issues. And they certainly don't have any need to deal with the less than helpful Postgres community, touting "advantages" that are completely irrelevant to them. Hell, most MySQL users only use a fraction of the features in MySQL. If they ever migrate to a different DB, it's more likely to be a MySQL-fork. Although Postgres could very well replace MySQL, the Postgres community chooses not to address that audience. Which is fine, but than please stop pointlessly pissing on MySQL at every available opportunity...
- justin_vanw 15y ago
  One of the things that puts me off the Mysql community are all the people shouting "Mysql is good enough". I've had to professionally administer both mysql and postgresql installations. Mysql is an awful piece of software. Every second spent using it is painful. You say 'it just works', and in that case it really doesn't matter what you use. If you haven't run into bugs/quirks/problems with whatever datastore you use, whether sql, or nosql, whether open or closed source, you haven't pushed it very hard. All software has rough edges and bugs. I think you will have a very hard time finding people who have used both mysql and some other database, whether sql-server, postgresql, or oracle (or even firebird) that would have a very high opinion of it. Now, what are the 'actual needs' of the vast majority of MySQL users that Postgresql doesn't satisfy? I hope that requirement isn't 'open source' :)
  - cageface 15y ago
    Indeed. It's like a badge of ignorance worn by people that have never used a real database. Sometimes the people telling you something is better are just trying to do you a favor. The Postgres folks are a model of advocacy, in my opinion, mostly leading by example.
    - 15y ago
nknight 15y ago
Good news! The Postgresql community is currently emulating the Linux community of the late 90s. That means in another 5-10 years, you too will have matured to the point where you don't have to go around screaming your perceived superiority and can allow your product to speak for itself. Seriously, even overpriced, self-aggrandizing Oracle DBAs are less insufferable than you guys.

justin_vanw 15y ago

Wow, someone actually modded my parent post down. All I can say is, Haters gonna Hate, Mysql users gonna wait. That is a reference to waiting for queries to finish. Mysql is slow.

there 15y ago
mysql being or not being slow, along with postgresql scaling well, have nothing to do with the story being posted. your comments are being downvoted for being off-topic.
- justin_vanw 15y ago
  The point of the article is that basic functionality you need to get MySQL to scale well are no longer available as 'open source', but only in the enterprise product. That seems to touch on 'open source' postgres scaling, as well as mysql being slow (well, unless you pay for enterprise it seems).
alnayyir 15y ago
You're off topic, take this >Haters gonna Hate back to the rubbish bin you found in and don't come back. Mindless, off-topic propaganda isn't welcome here. I, for one, would like to see more migration away from MySQL, but that doesn't mean you get to act like a total nob. Cue PG telling me to shut up again while I'm taking out the trash.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
  - alnayyir 15y ago
    What about the threads on this website say we care for humor or sarcasm? This isn't Reddit or 4chan. Stop pretending it is. People are here to better themselves, to learn, and quite possibly, to make a lot of fucking money. We aren't here to have a karma circlejerk over how absurdly clever or funny we can be by recalling a repetitive meme. Fuck. Off.

amccloud 15y ago

I'd love to migrate to postgresql. Unfortunately none of the published tools work well.

Roboprog 15y ago
OK, I'll bite: what are the tools that MySQL is supporting that PostgreSQL isn't? PHP blog generation software, or some lower level, more general purpose tool???
- MostAwesomeDude 15y ago
  The biggest one is PHPMyAdmin. LAMP's a pervasive thing. (Not that I like LAMP, mind you, but it's important to be aware of why Pg hasn't made large dents in the MySQL market share over the past decade.)
  - jwingy 15y ago
    phppgadmin? I've used both (using phppgadmin right now), and they're similar enough. It's not as nice as phpmyadmin, but that shouldn't be a determining factor over whether to use mysql over postgresql.
  - Roboprog 15y ago
    Thanks for the feedback. That explains a lot then. I always preferred to use the command line, so that I could either make scripts, or at least screen shots, of changes made. Thus, my utter lack of concern about the admin GUIs. PostgreSQL has a kick-ass command line tool, with online help, GNU readline (including auto-complete), annd good output formatting options. Contrast with Oracle's sql*plus tool (yee-UCK!). I seem to remember mysql having at least readline, but not sure about the rest (probably comparable, but who knows).
- amccloud 15y ago
  I should clarify. None of the tools for migrating my (rather simple) mysql database to pg work well or at all... But on that note PgAdmin3 is pretty crap. At least on my mac.

socratic 15y ago

You're certainly not alone in hoping that MySQL loses market share to PostgreSQL under Oracle's stewardship. I've always assumed that MySQL has been more prevalent due to some combination of historically earlier user friendliness, an incompatible SQL implementation, and feedback effects related to the previous two factors. That said, is there something that would be lost if everyone just switched from MySQL to PostgreSQL tomorrow? What benefits does MySQL have over PostgreSQL these days?

sjwright 15y ago
Momentum and familiarity. I run a big website and would love to switch; the only thing stopping me is that I'd have to manually fix hundreds of carefully hand-crafted queries to support pg syntax. If someone wrote a "MySQL emulator" layer for postgres, I'd switch tomorrow. (And I'd work quickly to progressively replace emulated calls with real pg SQL -- it's a lot easier to justify the effort after you make the switch than before!)
- justin_vanw 15y ago
  It really depends how 'carefully crafted' your queries are. If there are things like index hints, you can just strip them out. If you are using non-standard mysql specific syntax, that will be a bit of a pain, but it won't take more than a day or two to fix a few hundred queries. Where you are going to experience the most pain is that MySQL lets you write idiotic queries like this: SELECT id, last_name FROM some_table GROUP BY last_name; That is not valid SQL, for good reason. Other things that will bite you: http://andreas.scherbaum.la/blog/archives/657-PostgreSQL-9.0-Includes-the-new-MySQL-Emulation-Layer.html http://andreas.scherbaum.la/blog/archives/657-PostgreSQL-9.0... God, looking at that link makes me so sorry for anyone using MySQL. Life is too short for that.
  - rudiger 15y ago
    Why isn't that valid SQL?
    - 15y ago

rickmb 15y ago

One of things that puts me off Postgres is the constantly shouting "Postgres is better" (and please, we already know in which areas Postgres is better, nobody is debating that) without ever addressing the actual needs of the vast majority of MySQL-users. Most of them aren't DBA's, and they don't need to be for the purpose for which they use the DB. For them, MySQL is a tool that just works, without issues. And they certainly don't have any need to deal with the less than helpful Postgres community, touting "advantages" that are completely irrelevant to them. Hell, most MySQL users only use a fraction of the features in MySQL. If they ever migrate to a different DB, it's more likely to be a MySQL-fork. Although Postgres could very well replace MySQL, the Postgres community chooses not to address that audience. Which is fine, but than please stop pointlessly pissing on MySQL at every available opportunity...

justin_vanw 15y ago
One of the things that puts me off the Mysql community are all the people shouting "Mysql is good enough". I've had to professionally administer both mysql and postgresql installations. Mysql is an awful piece of software. Every second spent using it is painful. You say 'it just works', and in that case it really doesn't matter what you use. If you haven't run into bugs/quirks/problems with whatever datastore you use, whether sql, or nosql, whether open or closed source, you haven't pushed it very hard. All software has rough edges and bugs. I think you will have a very hard time finding people who have used both mysql and some other database, whether sql-server, postgresql, or oracle (or even firebird) that would have a very high opinion of it. Now, what are the 'actual needs' of the vast majority of MySQL users that Postgresql doesn't satisfy? I hope that requirement isn't 'open source' :)
- cageface 15y ago
  Indeed. It's like a badge of ignorance worn by people that have never used a real database. Sometimes the people telling you something is better are just trying to do you a favor. The Postgres folks are a model of advocacy, in my opinion, mostly leading by example.
  - 15y ago

nknight 15y ago

Good news! The Postgresql community is currently emulating the Linux community of the late 90s. That means in another 5-10 years, you too will have matured to the point where you don't have to go around screaming your perceived superiority and can allow your product to speak for itself. Seriously, even overpriced, self-aggrandizing Oracle DBAs are less insufferable than you guys.