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I don't buy it. I remember real meetings. They were far more exhausting than any zoom call. Completely draining. I guess the novelty of shuffling rooms every 4

I don't buy it. I remember real meetings. They were far more exhausting than any zoom call. Completely draining. I guess the novelty of shuffling rooms every 45 minutes is enough to keep some people feeling "active". Or perhaps some people find it "exciting" to frantically have everyone check if there are any other nearby conference rooms with space since we're getting kicked out of this one because, unlike with a video call, the fact that everyone was "running 5 minutes late" cut into an actually scarce physical resource. But here's my hot take: that feeling you have in video calls? It's you realizing for the first time what a meeting actually is: a waste of time. Without the chit chat and running across the hall, or the sky-high concentrated CO2 clouding your judgement, the meeting is distilled to its purest form. Since you're at home, "going to the meeting" isn't an excuse to escape your current surroundings. And since you're not walking there, the calories being burned aren't there to make you feel artificially productive when nothing meaningful took place. You're just finally seeing those 45 minutes slotted haphazardly into the middle of your day for what they really are. A waste of time.

jeremy_carroll 5y ago
- mdoms 5y ago
  This isn't Reddit.
na85 5y ago
>I remember real meetings. They were far more exhausting than any zoom call. Completely draining. Some were and some weren't. Bad leaders hold bad meetings. Good leaders hold meetings that are short, to-the-point, stick to the agenda, and involve only the people who actually need to be involved. To wit: if you don't hold sufficient authority to make decisions related to the meeting or if you aren't there to weigh in as a subject matter expert, then you don't get invited.
- rererr 5y ago
  Not to defend meetings, which are mostly pointless, but there is also a third reason to attend: education. It is often low signal, but you can occasionally learn something about the topic or at least learn the communication norms of your team/company.
- rtpg 5y ago
  I have never been in a meeting that felt valuable as a synchronous meeting with more than 8 people. Every virtual meeting complaint includes the grid of 16+ people. I feel like that’s the thing that is the problem
- tolmasky 5y ago
  This doesn’t really conflict with my point. We already know that bad leaders vastly outnumber good leaders. And there are I’m sure plenty of good leaders who haven’t mastered the specific skill of “meeting management”. Again, the video conference simply peels away all the fluff and reveals the meeting for what it is. The hypothetical “good leader” you bring up can just easily invite the right people to a video conference. Hence if the video conference sucks… it’s probably not because you’re not in a room with these people. Perhaps you will be more distracted in a physical meeting and thus less likely to be sufficiently annoyed to consciously ask “wait, why are we even doing any these meetings?”, but it’s not because the meeting was “better” in any meaningful sense. Especially when you consider the well-known psychological effect of leaving a room blanking your mind.
- spoonjim 5y ago
  It's not just the meeting itself, it's also a factor of the person. There are people who like to be alone and any meeting is going to be oppressively awful for them. Other people love to be around other people and any meeting no matter how useless is enjoyable for them.
alexashka 5y ago
> But here's my hot take: that feeling you have in video calls? It's you realizing for the first time what a meeting actually is: a waste of time. If only it was just the meeting. That would be really great...
odonnellryan 5y ago
I agree completely. And often more frequent. It is great that people don't like online meetings. It means less meetings. I have had very enjoyable online meetings, when the meeting is useful. If you are having meetings all day, if that is your job, I can see how it is annoying. But that isn't most people.
leobg 5y ago
I know a therapist who says that he can see about 8 clients a day in person. But if he does video calls, he can only do 4. Even though the duration is the same. With video calls, the work/small talk ratio is just so much higher, he says.
d4nt 5y ago
I’m reminded of this article: Why didn't electricity immediately change manufacturing? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40673694 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40673694 In the same way that swapping steam engines for electric motors didn’t yield much benefit. Just swapping real meetings for zoom meetings feels like a backwards step. But the real benefits come when you _reorganise_ your production processes around the new technology. Sadly for many middle managers, their role is disappearing and their income is dependent on them not understanding this.
BeFlatXIII 5y ago
The best part about Zoom meetings is that you can be completely disengaged when your presence is superfluous. Have your ear out for any key words, camera off, and mic muted and let the brain focus on other work or daydreaming. In-person meetings like this require you to put in effort to appear to pay attention.
- themadturk 5y ago
  That doesn’t work as well when you work for someone who requires the camera be on during meetings.

jeremy_carroll 5y ago

mdoms 5y ago
This isn't Reddit.

na85 5y ago

>I remember real meetings. They were far more exhausting than any zoom call. Completely draining. Some were and some weren't. Bad leaders hold bad meetings. Good leaders hold meetings that are short, to-the-point, stick to the agenda, and involve only the people who actually need to be involved. To wit: if you don't hold sufficient authority to make decisions related to the meeting or if you aren't there to weigh in as a subject matter expert, then you don't get invited.

rererr 5y ago
Not to defend meetings, which are mostly pointless, but there is also a third reason to attend: education. It is often low signal, but you can occasionally learn something about the topic or at least learn the communication norms of your team/company.
rtpg 5y ago
I have never been in a meeting that felt valuable as a synchronous meeting with more than 8 people. Every virtual meeting complaint includes the grid of 16+ people. I feel like that’s the thing that is the problem
tolmasky 5y ago
This doesn’t really conflict with my point. We already know that bad leaders vastly outnumber good leaders. And there are I’m sure plenty of good leaders who haven’t mastered the specific skill of “meeting management”. Again, the video conference simply peels away all the fluff and reveals the meeting for what it is. The hypothetical “good leader” you bring up can just easily invite the right people to a video conference. Hence if the video conference sucks… it’s probably not because you’re not in a room with these people. Perhaps you will be more distracted in a physical meeting and thus less likely to be sufficiently annoyed to consciously ask “wait, why are we even doing any these meetings?”, but it’s not because the meeting was “better” in any meaningful sense. Especially when you consider the well-known psychological effect of leaving a room blanking your mind.
spoonjim 5y ago
It's not just the meeting itself, it's also a factor of the person. There are people who like to be alone and any meeting is going to be oppressively awful for them. Other people love to be around other people and any meeting no matter how useless is enjoyable for them.

alexashka 5y ago

> But here's my hot take: that feeling you have in video calls? It's you realizing for the first time what a meeting actually is: a waste of time. If only it was just the meeting. That would be really great...

odonnellryan 5y ago

I agree completely. And often more frequent. It is great that people don't like online meetings. It means less meetings. I have had very enjoyable online meetings, when the meeting is useful. If you are having meetings all day, if that is your job, I can see how it is annoying. But that isn't most people.

leobg 5y ago

I know a therapist who says that he can see about 8 clients a day in person. But if he does video calls, he can only do 4. Even though the duration is the same. With video calls, the work/small talk ratio is just so much higher, he says.

d4nt 5y ago

I’m reminded of this article: Why didn't electricity immediately change manufacturing? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40673694 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-40673694 In the same way that swapping steam engines for electric motors didn’t yield much benefit. Just swapping real meetings for zoom meetings feels like a backwards step. But the real benefits come when you _reorganise_ your production processes around the new technology. Sadly for many middle managers, their role is disappearing and their income is dependent on them not understanding this.

BeFlatXIII 5y ago

The best part about Zoom meetings is that you can be completely disengaged when your presence is superfluous. Have your ear out for any key words, camera off, and mic muted and let the brain focus on other work or daydreaming. In-person meetings like this require you to put in effort to appear to pay attention.

themadturk 5y ago
That doesn’t work as well when you work for someone who requires the camera be on during meetings.