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Test: Is torture always morally wrong? Me: Of course not. Test: Would you torture someone to stop a nuke from exploding in a city? Me: No. Test: That's not
by Dove 5y ago
Test: Is torture always morally wrong?
Me: Of course not.
Test: Would you torture someone to stop a nuke from exploding in a city?
Me: No.
Test: That's not necessarily inconsistent, but it is very strange. Are you sure you meant your first answer?
sigh This test was clearly written by a utilitarian who is not capable of seeing the world another way, who believes if you make the numbers big enough, deep down I must be a utilitarian too.
I am not a utilitarian.
I mean it!
I am not willing to do evil that good may result. I am not willing to do it if the good is small. I am not willing to do it if the good is big. I am not willing to do it!
I say "of course" torture is not always morally unacceptable because I can think of so many circumstances in which it's obviously acceptable. EMTs necessarily torture people all the time in the process of treating them. All the personal trainers I've had - at least the good ones - have tortured me, and frankly that's what I pay them for. Navy SEALs torture prospective members to find and create those who can handle the rigors of war. And on a very small scale, parents routinely and necessarily make their kids suffer in order to make them better people. While what parents do stretches the definition of the word, I am convinced God does things on a grand scale that easily qualify under a similar principle.
The crucial factor isn't net human happiness - I don't believe in sacrificing one person for another in a general context. It isn't even consent. It's love. I believe you can hurt someone, even profoundly, not always as a sufficient condition but as an often necessary one, if you believe it's best for them.
Utilitarians think morality lies in outcomes - the whats. But whatever I am is completely orthogonal - I believe it lies in the story surrounding the outcome, the hows and the whys.
- s1artibartfast 5y agoI think you just have a different definition of torture. Simple as that. I think they were asking about nonconsentual infliction of pain and suffering to achieve a goal orthogonal to the recipients.
- whbrown 5y ago> Utilitarians think morality lies in outcomes - the whats. But whatever I am is completely orthogonal - I believe it lies in the story surrounding the outcome, the hows and the whys. Reminds me of virtue ethics, and understanding the complex story of the hows and the whys is called practical wisdom. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aristotle-ethics/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aristotle-ethics/
- BugsJustFindMe 5y agoI think your take is off the mark because I got the same style of "how strange" commentary from different inputs. I said that I'd torture the guy while feeling no moral obligation to do so. The site was equally perplexed about my choices despite me being 100% consistent in the end. IMO the biggest issue is that the site appears to believe that people only act from obligation. As though nobody ever does anything without feeling obligated. It's an extremely narrow-minded view of action that probably couldn't be farther from the truth if it tried. Actually... I might start using that... "Hey, do you want to get pizza?" "Sorry, I feel morally obligated to eat Indian food tonight."