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We're talking about trading vehicles here. Traders will trade.

arcticbull 5y ago
Equities are investment vehicles. If you choose to trade them, that's your decision - but you will lose, on average. 95% of day traders lose money [1]. Zero-sum financial instruments like futures and options and cryptocurrencies are trading vehicles. These are not the same. [1] https://www.fool.com/investing/how-to-invest/stocks/day-trading/ https://www.fool.com/investing/how-to-invest/stocks/day-trad...
- KasianFranks 5y ago
  Both are trading vehicles and are treated the same by traders [1] similar to the VIX. Hedge funds, asset management companies and institutions spend their time and their clients money trading, not investing [2]. For groups like these, trading is where the money is. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13844765 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13844765 [2] https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/12/difference-investing-trading.asp https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/12/difference-inves...
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    The VIX is a synthetic index whose value is derived from the implied volatility of the S&P 500 index options (computed from the premium of around-the-money options on the SPX cash index a certain amount of time ahead), without fundamentals, tradeable only via futures contracts and ETFs that own those futures. It's a second derivative tradeable only via third derivative. This is very very zero-sum. The overwhelming majority of these actively managed funds fail to beat the returns of the S&P 500. [1] In fact over 15 years 92% of actively managed large-cap funds trail the returns of the S&P 500. Stop trading. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/15/active-fund-managers-trail-the-sp-500-for-the-ninth-year-in-a-row-in-triumph-for-indexing.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/15/active-fund-managers-trail-t...
- fouc 5y ago
  I hear that 95% figure all the time but I wonder if that applies to traders that have been trading as a full-time job for 5 years?
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    Well, 92% of actively managed funds underperform the S&P 500 on a 15 year trailing basis [1] so I'm going to say probably a lot. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/15/active-fund-managers-trail-the-sp-500-for-the-ninth-year-in-a-row-in-triumph-for-indexing.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/15/active-fund-managers-trail-t...
agumonkey 5y ago
A lot of semi educated traders frankly don't care. They follow crowd psychology based idioms with risk management. Cryptos are just a more volatile asset class to profit on.
hamiltonians 5y ago
and some trades, strategies are way better than others

Equities are investment vehicles. If you choose to trade them, that's your decision - but you will lose, on average. 95% of day traders lose money [1]. Zero-sum financial instruments like futures and options and cryptocurrencies are trading vehicles. These are not the same. [1] https://www.fool.com/investing/how-to-invest/stocks/day-trading/ https://www.fool.com/investing/how-to-invest/stocks/day-trad...

KasianFranks 5y ago
Both are trading vehicles and are treated the same by traders [1] similar to the VIX. Hedge funds, asset management companies and institutions spend their time and their clients money trading, not investing [2]. For groups like these, trading is where the money is. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13844765 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13844765 [2] https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/12/difference-investing-trading.asp https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/12/difference-inves...
- arcticbull 5y ago
  The VIX is a synthetic index whose value is derived from the implied volatility of the S&P 500 index options (computed from the premium of around-the-money options on the SPX cash index a certain amount of time ahead), without fundamentals, tradeable only via futures contracts and ETFs that own those futures. It's a second derivative tradeable only via third derivative. This is very very zero-sum. The overwhelming majority of these actively managed funds fail to beat the returns of the S&P 500. [1] In fact over 15 years 92% of actively managed large-cap funds trail the returns of the S&P 500. Stop trading. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/15/active-fund-managers-trail-the-sp-500-for-the-ninth-year-in-a-row-in-triumph-for-indexing.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/15/active-fund-managers-trail-t...
fouc 5y ago
I hear that 95% figure all the time but I wonder if that applies to traders that have been trading as a full-time job for 5 years?
- arcticbull 5y ago
  Well, 92% of actively managed funds underperform the S&P 500 on a 15 year trailing basis [1] so I'm going to say probably a lot. [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/15/active-fund-managers-trail-the-sp-500-for-the-ninth-year-in-a-row-in-triumph-for-indexing.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/15/active-fund-managers-trail-t...

agumonkey 5y ago

A lot of semi educated traders frankly don't care. They follow crowd psychology based idioms with risk management. Cryptos are just a more volatile asset class to profit on.

hamiltonians 5y ago

and some trades, strategies are way better than others