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The real world effectiveness of torture actually doesn't matter for evaluating the given scenario. You should be able and willing to think about what you would

The real world effectiveness of torture actually doesn't matter for evaluating the given scenario. You should be able and willing to think about what you would do with the given constraints. Even if you think it's only 0.1% effective instead of 75%, you still have given as facts that the man confessed to planting the bomb and that a million people will definitely die if the bomb isn't found in less than 24 hours.

Avshalom 5y ago
>You should be able and willing to think about what you would do with the given constraints. Should I? That's basically claiming that I should have an answer for when I'm half way down any given slippery slope. I would instead point out that (as a general matter and specifically in this case as the constraints bear no relation to reality) a slippery slope is a logical fallacy and I should no more be expected to have a pre-set contingency for every possible trolley problem than I should for waking up and finding out that 1+1=Banana.
- BugsJustFindMe 5y ago
  > Should I? If you care about the consistency of your framework, then yes, I believe so. > I would instead point out that (as a general matter and specifically in this case as the constraints bear no relation to reality) a slippery slope is a logical fallacy The presented scenarios are not any kind of slippery slope fallacy, so your statement is a non sequitur.
pseudoramble 5y ago
I think your point is right, but I admit I struggled here. It's trying to constrain the scenario, but it's both too unrealistic and not constrained enough for me to manage. Here's what I was thinking. First off, torture as far as I understand has way worse outcomes than 75% success, and I don't think information like a full blown confession is very often had. But OK, 75% chance they find out where it is with a definite admission of guilt. No chance they get bad information during torture. Howw long do they do the torture to get that info? 1 minute? 23 hours and 59 minutes? Is that really enough time to dispatch the team? Let's say they have enough time though. The scenario says "if the bomb is found, there's a chance it can be disarmed." What kind of chance? 99%? .00001%? If they fail to disarm it, did you send a team of people off to die with the other 1 million? Or do they evacuate to survive? Is it worth potentially sacrificing more people on the chance you can help then? It was just too much for me I guess. But truly I agree with you. Maybe over a longer period of time I can think more clearly about it with more constraints to help me.
- BugsJustFindMe 5y ago
  > Howw long do they do the torture to get that info? 1 minute? 23 hours and 59 minutes? Is that really enough time to dispatch the team? You won't know until you try. > If they fail to disarm it, did you send a team of people off to die with the other 1 million? This sounds like you're suggesting that nobody should ever try to disarm a bomb. I think it's safe to assume that the people who disarm bombs have chosen to do so and weren't forced into it.
wilde 5y ago
Oh totally. I was just annoyed that the prompt after that was “see! You actually don’t think torture is wrong!” The site seems to think that morality is a set of unparameterized rules blindly followed. That is frustrating.

Avshalom 5y ago

>You should be able and willing to think about what you would do with the given constraints. Should I? That's basically claiming that I should have an answer for when I'm half way down any given slippery slope. I would instead point out that (as a general matter and specifically in this case as the constraints bear no relation to reality) a slippery slope is a logical fallacy and I should no more be expected to have a pre-set contingency for every possible trolley problem than I should for waking up and finding out that 1+1=Banana.

BugsJustFindMe 5y ago
> Should I? If you care about the consistency of your framework, then yes, I believe so. > I would instead point out that (as a general matter and specifically in this case as the constraints bear no relation to reality) a slippery slope is a logical fallacy The presented scenarios are not any kind of slippery slope fallacy, so your statement is a non sequitur.

pseudoramble 5y ago

I think your point is right, but I admit I struggled here. It's trying to constrain the scenario, but it's both too unrealistic and not constrained enough for me to manage. Here's what I was thinking. First off, torture as far as I understand has way worse outcomes than 75% success, and I don't think information like a full blown confession is very often had. But OK, 75% chance they find out where it is with a definite admission of guilt. No chance they get bad information during torture. Howw long do they do the torture to get that info? 1 minute? 23 hours and 59 minutes? Is that really enough time to dispatch the team? Let's say they have enough time though. The scenario says "if the bomb is found, there's a chance it can be disarmed." What kind of chance? 99%? .00001%? If they fail to disarm it, did you send a team of people off to die with the other 1 million? Or do they evacuate to survive? Is it worth potentially sacrificing more people on the chance you can help then? It was just too much for me I guess. But truly I agree with you. Maybe over a longer period of time I can think more clearly about it with more constraints to help me.

BugsJustFindMe 5y ago
> Howw long do they do the torture to get that info? 1 minute? 23 hours and 59 minutes? Is that really enough time to dispatch the team? You won't know until you try. > If they fail to disarm it, did you send a team of people off to die with the other 1 million? This sounds like you're suggesting that nobody should ever try to disarm a bomb. I think it's safe to assume that the people who disarm bombs have chosen to do so and weren't forced into it.

wilde 5y ago

Oh totally. I was just annoyed that the prompt after that was “see! You actually don’t think torture is wrong!” The site seems to think that morality is a set of unparameterized rules blindly followed. That is frustrating.