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Data in data out. AIs are not magical, they just learn to put things together from what they were given. Google being a "progressive" company would have of co

Data in data out. AIs are not magical, they just learn to put things together from what they were given. Google being a "progressive" company would have of course trained it to walk on egg shells when someone questions a gender assumption that it makes. It's well within their corpus and culture. I'd say, generally, if you say "I'm a he/him" then it will call you a "he/him" - to separate that into treating it as he / him in the grammatical sense just seems like a "basic grammar" module that would have to be bolted after someone is classified as male or female, nevermind non-binary types. I wonder if all future AIs now have to dedicate some portion of their NN to grammar-and-gender rules to avoid upsetting modern sensibilities. I kind of think that we need to steer AIs away from trying to talk like humans at all. We can develop a simple grammar and language that AIs share information with, something a little more efficient than English perhaps. But then what value are we to extract? Not much of its not in our language.. Thankfully I just train all my AIs to talk in the second person ("YOU" etc.) So it's another way to avoid the problem, but still might have eggshells in the public sphere, so I don't really release

nkrisc 5y ago
How would that be any different than the AI referring to people by their name instead of just “Meatbag”? Do you just call everyone you work with whatever name you feel like giving them? You look like a Josh to me, I’ll call you Josh.
- drekipus 5y ago
  What? On one to one conversations there's only two members, "me" and "you" My point is that you don't have to code in "Josh" - or of you do, it can just be "name=Josh". But save effort in the actual logic of what you're doing. I don't get what the problem is? I'm saying just using "You" is a lot simpler than "he/she"
  - FabHK 5y ago
    Ok, what when I talk to you, and say, "so, I saw Mike the other day in an accident." What do you reply? "oh, how is Mike? Did Mike hurt Mike?" Or do you reply "Oh, how is he? Did he hurt himself?"
    - drekipus 5y ago
      Going back to my original post: "I kind of think that we need to steer AIs away from trying to talk like humans at all." The question is "why would I be talking to ai about an accident involving another person?" Is it a medical AI? then perhaps it would be better to refer to Mike as "the patient", etc. Which is how it would be handled in code. Are you looking to make friends with your ai? Then no, I think you need to go find real humans to talk to, who can navigate complex human social interactions better. Robots are not a substitute for humans.
      - jimmygrapes 5y ago
        >Robots are not a substitute for humans. Well, there is Replika.ai which seems to be doing alright for itself.
    - drekipus 5y ago
      And adding to this, isn't the whole issue assuming that Mike is a male? Imagine training a medical bot that gets stuck in a loop asking about pronouns in a an automated 911 call, for instance. Modern society isn't easy to program for, if we're trying to make robots that conform to (western, minority) "norms".
      - nkrisc 5y ago
        So don’t code that for a bot that responds to 911 calls.
    - snovv_crash 5y ago
      But then you're not speaking to Mike, right? You're speaking about Mike. So unless the person you're speaking with gets offended on Mike's behalf I don't see what the problem is.
      - drekipus 5y ago
        A lot of people get offended on other people's behalf
  - nkrisc 5y ago
    And yet it came up in the conversation nonetheless, even with only two participants. I can think of different reasons why the person’s pronouns might be relevant even though it’s only a two party conversation. Maybe the bot will read back to the human a message the bot will send to someone else about their conversation for verification of accuracy. That might contain a third person reference to the human participant.
marius_k 5y ago
Maybe people are also data in data out? "I am what I remember." someone said.
dotancohen 5y ago
> So it's another way to avoid the problem, but still might have > eggshells in the public sphere, so I don't really release. Go ahead and be traditional, even if the snowflakes find it a bit offensive. They're looking for offense, it's an arms race. The deeper you bury it now the more you'll have to work to appease them.
EGreg 5y ago
FB already had AIs invent their own language years ago when they made them answer Marketplace queries lol

nkrisc 5y ago

How would that be any different than the AI referring to people by their name instead of just “Meatbag”? Do you just call everyone you work with whatever name you feel like giving them? You look like a Josh to me, I’ll call you Josh.

drekipus 5y ago
What? On one to one conversations there's only two members, "me" and "you" My point is that you don't have to code in "Josh" - or of you do, it can just be "name=Josh". But save effort in the actual logic of what you're doing. I don't get what the problem is? I'm saying just using "You" is a lot simpler than "he/she"
- FabHK 5y ago
  Ok, what when I talk to you, and say, "so, I saw Mike the other day in an accident." What do you reply? "oh, how is Mike? Did Mike hurt Mike?" Or do you reply "Oh, how is he? Did he hurt himself?"
  - drekipus 5y ago
    Going back to my original post: "I kind of think that we need to steer AIs away from trying to talk like humans at all." The question is "why would I be talking to ai about an accident involving another person?" Is it a medical AI? then perhaps it would be better to refer to Mike as "the patient", etc. Which is how it would be handled in code. Are you looking to make friends with your ai? Then no, I think you need to go find real humans to talk to, who can navigate complex human social interactions better. Robots are not a substitute for humans.
    - jimmygrapes 5y ago
      >Robots are not a substitute for humans. Well, there is Replika.ai which seems to be doing alright for itself.
  - drekipus 5y ago
    And adding to this, isn't the whole issue assuming that Mike is a male? Imagine training a medical bot that gets stuck in a loop asking about pronouns in a an automated 911 call, for instance. Modern society isn't easy to program for, if we're trying to make robots that conform to (western, minority) "norms".
    - nkrisc 5y ago
      So don’t code that for a bot that responds to 911 calls.
  - snovv_crash 5y ago
    But then you're not speaking to Mike, right? You're speaking about Mike. So unless the person you're speaking with gets offended on Mike's behalf I don't see what the problem is.
    - drekipus 5y ago
      A lot of people get offended on other people's behalf
- nkrisc 5y ago
  And yet it came up in the conversation nonetheless, even with only two participants. I can think of different reasons why the person’s pronouns might be relevant even though it’s only a two party conversation. Maybe the bot will read back to the human a message the bot will send to someone else about their conversation for verification of accuracy. That might contain a third person reference to the human participant.

marius_k 5y ago

Maybe people are also data in data out? "I am what I remember." someone said.

dotancohen 5y ago

> So it's another way to avoid the problem, but still might have > eggshells in the public sphere, so I don't really release. Go ahead and be traditional, even if the snowflakes find it a bit offensive. They're looking for offense, it's an arms race. The deeper you bury it now the more you'll have to work to appease them.

EGreg 5y ago

FB already had AIs invent their own language years ago when they made them answer Marketplace queries lol