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We as a society cannot keep disposing of things forever. We need to be making as many production streams cyclical as possible, or we will eventually run out of

We as a society cannot keep disposing of things forever. We need to be making as many production streams cyclical as possible, or we will eventually run out of the easy-to-aquire resources

slavik81 5y ago
The earth's crust is 60% silicon dioxide. I don't understand how we could possibly run out. I mean, I get the value in recycling the panels. It's presumably easier to start with almost pure material than 60% pure. Still, if it were cheaper to start with a chunk of feldspar than an old panel, I don't think we'd have to worry about the lack of virgin materials.
- jiggawatts 5y ago
  This is precisely my point. So many people automatically assume that everything is scarce and recycling is automatically “good”. Chances are that the process described in the article uses more resources and produces more pollution than simply starting from sand.
  - andrewxdiamond 5y ago
    This comparison is incomplete without thinking about what happens to the disposed-of panels. Panels in landfills are pollution as much as anything else
    - jiggawatts 5y ago
      Solar panels are glass and silicon. Just crush them an mix them into concrete…
  - pfdietz 5y ago
    It's also not clear if recycling the silicon in PV cells into new PV cells is the best way to recycle it. The world also uses silicon in silicon steels and in the manufacture of silicones. As PV is further scaled up these may not be large enough markets, granted.
- kube-system 5y ago
  The air is 21% oxygen and hospitals were running out of oxygen in some places during the COVID pandemic. Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, and yet, the supply of hydrogen is one of the biggest hurdles to the adoption of hydrogen cars. Just because a resource exists nearby doesn't necessarily mean it can be harnessed economically or within the other constraints that the world and society imposes on us. Silica mines are mostly (all?) surface mines, we don't explore anywhere into the crust to get it now because it isn't economical to do so. "Running out" of supply doesn't necessarily mean that the element doesn't exist, it could mean that it is inaccessible for other reasons -- like it could be the beach in front of someone's house, or a protected park.
kiba 5y ago
Would be more concerned with pollution and side effect before resources scarcity.
pfdietz 5y ago
> We as a society cannot keep disposing of things forever. Of course, because the Earth won't be around forever. But we can dispose of a lot of stuff for a very long time, because the Earth is a really big place. Geology is all about massive quantities of stuff just being left in piles and solidifying over millions of years. If the stuff isn't that toxic, this could happen to anthropogenic stuff too.

We as a society cannot keep disposing of things forever. We need to be making as many production streams cyclical as possible, or we will eventually run out of the easy-to-aquire resources

slavik81 5y ago

The earth's crust is 60% silicon dioxide. I don't understand how we could possibly run out. I mean, I get the value in recycling the panels. It's presumably easier to start with almost pure material than 60% pure. Still, if it were cheaper to start with a chunk of feldspar than an old panel, I don't think we'd have to worry about the lack of virgin materials.

jiggawatts 5y ago
This is precisely my point. So many people automatically assume that everything is scarce and recycling is automatically “good”. Chances are that the process described in the article uses more resources and produces more pollution than simply starting from sand.
- andrewxdiamond 5y ago
  This comparison is incomplete without thinking about what happens to the disposed-of panels. Panels in landfills are pollution as much as anything else
  - jiggawatts 5y ago
    Solar panels are glass and silicon. Just crush them an mix them into concrete…
- pfdietz 5y ago
  It's also not clear if recycling the silicon in PV cells into new PV cells is the best way to recycle it. The world also uses silicon in silicon steels and in the manufacture of silicones. As PV is further scaled up these may not be large enough markets, granted.
kube-system 5y ago
The air is 21% oxygen and hospitals were running out of oxygen in some places during the COVID pandemic. Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, and yet, the supply of hydrogen is one of the biggest hurdles to the adoption of hydrogen cars. Just because a resource exists nearby doesn't necessarily mean it can be harnessed economically or within the other constraints that the world and society imposes on us. Silica mines are mostly (all?) surface mines, we don't explore anywhere into the crust to get it now because it isn't economical to do so. "Running out" of supply doesn't necessarily mean that the element doesn't exist, it could mean that it is inaccessible for other reasons -- like it could be the beach in front of someone's house, or a protected park.

kiba 5y ago

Would be more concerned with pollution and side effect before resources scarcity.

pfdietz 5y ago

> We as a society cannot keep disposing of things forever. Of course, because the Earth won't be around forever. But we can dispose of a lot of stuff for a very long time, because the Earth is a really big place. Geology is all about massive quantities of stuff just being left in piles and solidifying over millions of years. If the stuff isn't that toxic, this could happen to anthropogenic stuff too.