3 ms·

I'm a Delphi guy at heart that mostly sneers at all the web UI degeneracy from the last two decades. I do however recognize some important enhancements brought

I'm a Delphi guy at heart that mostly sneers at all the web UI degeneracy from the last two decades. I do however recognize some important enhancements brought by the HTML + CSS model: enabling Internationalization, Accessibility and Display independence. I'm not sure how modern GUI frameworks do it (Qt/QML?) but these are necessities for modern first class UIs that require a lot of work to get right.

pjmlp 5y ago
All of those web features exist since Motif days and layout managers.
- jchw 5y ago
  Personally, DPI independence and screen reader support is definitely not something I associate with the “Motif days.”
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    Well, it was there, regardless.
    - jchw 5y ago
      Citation needed? At least in actual motif. Can’t find any information about either thing.
      - pjmlp 5y ago
        I love this seeing is believing in tech. DPI independence was already supported, because each X Windows terminal was different beast, hence layout managers and multiple coordinate systems. "Common Desktop Environment: Internationalization Programmer's Guide" https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/references/unix/digital/COSEPRGD/DOCU_001.HTM https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/references/unix/digital/COSEPR... "Developing Applications for the Display PostScript System" https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/references/unix/digital/AQ15WBTE/TITLE.HTM https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/references/unix/digital/AQ15WB... Coordinate handling chapters. "Common Desktop Environment: Application Builder User's Guide" Attaching objects chapter for layouts https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/references/unix/digital/APPBLDR/DOCU_002.HTM#HEADING108 https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/references/unix/digital/APPBLD... "Common Desktop Environment: Programmer's Overview" https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/references/unix/digital/PROG_OVW/DOCU_010.HTM https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/references/unix/digital/PROG_O... "Common Desktop Environment: Style Guide and Certification Checklist" Access and the Style Guide chapter https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19683-01/816-0284/6m6phpvqa/index.html https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19683-01/816-0284/6m6phpvqa/inde... And here is some of the stuff being done back in the day, https://park.org/Guests/Trace/pavilion/unixshar.htm https://park.org/Guests/Trace/pavilion/unixshar.htm
        jchw 5y ago
        DPI independence definitely existed in some forms. (Heck, even GDI theoretically had DPI independence baked in, since I guess everyone was inspired by PostScript et al.) And I never really disputed layout management, since I was aware that some systems were doing that, too. I dispute that most systems from that time period could do what we do today and scale correctly on high resolution displays. I’ve had enough experience setting Xresources to be skeptical. But frankly, I just don’t have enough experience with Motif and CDE to really stake a claim here. So I’ll fold on that one: DPI scaling is certainly not absent. I was most curious to hear about screen readers, because I wasn’t aware of any accessibility protocols or buses on UNIX-likes prior to ATK. But I’m guessing CDE desktops really don’t have that. Maybe the easiest way to find out would be to just boot up CDE and find out, since I’m pretty sure it’s still maintained…

pjmlp 5y ago

All of those web features exist since Motif days and layout managers.

jchw 5y ago
Personally, DPI independence and screen reader support is definitely not something I associate with the “Motif days.”
- pjmlp 5y ago
  Well, it was there, regardless.
  - jchw 5y ago
    Citation needed? At least in actual motif. Can’t find any information about either thing.
    - pjmlp 5y ago
      I love this seeing is believing in tech. DPI independence was already supported, because each X Windows terminal was different beast, hence layout managers and multiple coordinate systems. "Common Desktop Environment: Internationalization Programmer's Guide" https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/references/unix/digital/COSEPRGD/DOCU_001.HTM https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/references/unix/digital/COSEPR... "Developing Applications for the Display PostScript System" https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/references/unix/digital/AQ15WBTE/TITLE.HTM https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/references/unix/digital/AQ15WB... Coordinate handling chapters. "Common Desktop Environment: Application Builder User's Guide" Attaching objects chapter for layouts https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/references/unix/digital/APPBLDR/DOCU_002.HTM#HEADING108 https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/references/unix/digital/APPBLD... "Common Desktop Environment: Programmer's Overview" https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/references/unix/digital/PROG_OVW/DOCU_010.HTM https://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/references/unix/digital/PROG_O... "Common Desktop Environment: Style Guide and Certification Checklist" Access and the Style Guide chapter https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19683-01/816-0284/6m6phpvqa/index.html https://docs.oracle.com/cd/E19683-01/816-0284/6m6phpvqa/inde... And here is some of the stuff being done back in the day, https://park.org/Guests/Trace/pavilion/unixshar.htm https://park.org/Guests/Trace/pavilion/unixshar.htm
      - jchw 5y ago
        DPI independence definitely existed in some forms. (Heck, even GDI theoretically had DPI independence baked in, since I guess everyone was inspired by PostScript et al.) And I never really disputed layout management, since I was aware that some systems were doing that, too. I dispute that most systems from that time period could do what we do today and scale correctly on high resolution displays. I’ve had enough experience setting Xresources to be skeptical. But frankly, I just don’t have enough experience with Motif and CDE to really stake a claim here. So I’ll fold on that one: DPI scaling is certainly not absent. I was most curious to hear about screen readers, because I wasn’t aware of any accessibility protocols or buses on UNIX-likes prior to ATK. But I’m guessing CDE desktops really don’t have that. Maybe the easiest way to find out would be to just boot up CDE and find out, since I’m pretty sure it’s still maintained…