6 ms·
Influence over the ethical decision making of the company. The best thing a software union could do is refuse to build harmful technology.
by stathibus 5y ago
Influence over the ethical decision making of the company.
The best thing a software union could do is refuse to build harmful technology.
- verdverm 5y agoAll technology can be used for harm. How do you propose to make a distinction between acceptable and not?
- kelseyfrog 5y agoHow do we do it outside the workplace?
- verdverm 5y agoTypically those who cause harm are punished, rather than banning a technology for the possibility of harm. Insurance is often around too. Cars are a great example, but pretty much everything follows this pattern.
- kelseyfrog 5y agoSure, but before punishment, how is it decided what causes harm and what doesn't? My point is that this is a group activity. Ascribing the status of harm causing behaviors happens in aggregate. This is in contrast to workplace decision making which happens hierarchically. Democracy is a superior version of decision making right? Why should that idea cease to exist the moment someone steps into the workplace? Who has an interest in perpetuating the myth that workplace democracy is untenable? We run whole countries with the input of citizens, surely that could scale down to a workplace, right?
- verdverm 5y ago> Democracy is a superior version of decision making right? Not always, no. Everything has nuance and context. For example, would you like democracy and voting in the emergency room? While I don't agree with it, China has demonstrated interesting results from non-democratic decision making. Certainly direct democracy does not scale well and would be a terrible idea at out present moment. Is the country really run with the input of the citizens? What are politicians optimizing for? What are the contents of the policies being passed and what are they based on? Who's actually writing the majority of that? Do all employees have the ability and context to make informed input or decisions? Are there any decisions which will make all people happy? Do all people consider the same acts harmful?
- kelseyfrog 5y agoEven in the emergency room there is always at least two people giving input. The patient can always not consent. In an employee-employer environment, shouldn't employees have at least some option to not consent as well?
- verdverm 5y agoEmployment is a contract, not a right. You can always end the contract. What if we think about workplace requirements for vaccines? Does your opinion on employee option to not consent remain?
- kelseyfrog 5y agoWe already have voting with one's feet and yet here we are. Workers should be able to collectively bargain on whatever they want including input on the ethics of what they are asked to produce.
- verdverm 5y agoSeems as though your mind is made up and your questions are not for gaining understanding
- kelseyfrog 5y agoOn the contrary. I did gain an understanding. Correct me if I'm wrong, but your position is to maintain the status quo w.r.t workplace decision making, correct?
- verdverm 5y agoYou are wrong, but that's what happens when you project your biases and assumptions. Perhaps try to avoid treating the other person as an adversary when they don't agree with you
- 5y ago
- stathibus 5y agoWith a vote, by the union.