5 ms·

Perfect example of a brilliant thinker who needs to be contained. It's great to begin with ways of thinking like he does; but his love for secrets make him dang

by jrm4 5y ago

Perfect example of a brilliant thinker who needs to be contained. It's great to begin with ways of thinking like he does; but his love for secrets make him dangerous; people like him do more harm than good to the world because they're very bad at the whole "don't tear a fence down until you know why it was put up" thing.

zozbot234 5y ago
> people like him do more harm than good to the world because they're very bad at the whole "don't tear a fence down until you know why it was put up" thing. Quite wrong. The article mentions that Thiel is anti-consensus - to him, 100% agreement with no real space for debate (on an issue with any amount of inherent complexity) is inherently fishy. This means that trying to figure out why the fence might be there is an especially worthwhile "search for secrets". And once you've done that work, you might end up tearing that fence down after all - or perhaps not.
- jrm4 5y ago
  And you (probably like him) are going to miss the difference between theory and practice on this. His idea here is a good one. Explore and chip away at that 100% agreement thing when you see it. Problem is he strongly appears to be the type with the dumb ego that can't distinguish between genuine "dangerous 100%-ism" and merely "being disagreed with by a lot of people."
  - zozbot234 5y ago
    So you're just saying that he might be dangerous because of his ego, not necessarily his ideas. Y'know, I'm not going to disagree there. But taking that big ego for granted, a "search for hidden secrets" is still one of the most socially productive ways you might use it for. Jumping on the bandwagon of a dubious social consensus can be a lot worse.
    - KerrAvon 5y ago
      He literally funded Trump. “Productive” sometimes isn’t desirable.
      - not1ofU 5y ago
        and facebook
      - tartoran 5y ago
        Was surprised by that too and am wondering what he could have gained out of that. Thiel is an intelligent guy but something about him seems dubious but can’t really point my finger at it.
        squarefoot 5y ago
        Stupid people can do bad things without thinking, but when intelligent ones do it's always because there is an agenda.
        mmastrac 5y ago
        Perhaps to tear down the society we have now to replace it with a Libertarian paradise.
        kcplate 5y ago
        Sounds good to me…
        s1artibartfast 5y ago
        A lot of libertarians were attracted to Trumps anti-regulation and anti-bureaucracy policy positions. At a minimum, they got 3 originalist supreme court justices out of it.
        jrm4 5y ago
        This is a really easy question if you pay attention to his whole "maybe people don't know what's best for themselves" schtick.
mrandish 5y ago
> but his love for secrets make him dangerous I understood the part about "secrets" differently. I read Thiel's book about entrepreneurial mindset, Zero to One, a few years ago and found it valuable. As a long-time serial entrepreneur myself (initially unsuccessful and eventually quite successful), Thiel clearly understands the complex dynamics deeply and offers actionable insights. One of the things Thiel touches on is how entrepreneurs are often contrarians trying to identify the occasional exceptions where mainstream thinking got something important wrong. Paul Graham also talks about this, observing that entrepreneurs aren't just looking for "good ideas", they are looking for "good ideas most people are wrong about". This is necessary because if most people hadn't missed something then the "good idea" would already be a hotly contested mature market with deep-pocketed big players slugging it out for dominance. Pretty much by definition, a high-growth start-up must believe they've identified some aspect of the opportunity other smart people missed. The start-up might be wrong but when they are correct it can be both disruptive and transformative. This is the context in which I read the discussion of "secrets"
- jrm4 5y ago
  I don't disagree with a single thing you're saying here. I really like Zero to One as well, and I think a lot of people could benefit from that theory-- --but still, scale matters. Once a guy in love with that kind of theory begins to be this rich and powerful, he becomes dangerous.

by jrm4 5y ago

zozbot234 5y ago

> people like him do more harm than good to the world because they're very bad at the whole "don't tear a fence down until you know why it was put up" thing. Quite wrong. The article mentions that Thiel is anti-consensus - to him, 100% agreement with no real space for debate (on an issue with any amount of inherent complexity) is inherently fishy. This means that trying to figure out why the fence might be there is an especially worthwhile "search for secrets". And once you've done that work, you might end up tearing that fence down after all - or perhaps not.

jrm4 5y ago
And you (probably like him) are going to miss the difference between theory and practice on this. His idea here is a good one. Explore and chip away at that 100% agreement thing when you see it. Problem is he strongly appears to be the type with the dumb ego that can't distinguish between genuine "dangerous 100%-ism" and merely "being disagreed with by a lot of people."
- zozbot234 5y ago
  So you're just saying that he might be dangerous because of his ego, not necessarily his ideas. Y'know, I'm not going to disagree there. But taking that big ego for granted, a "search for hidden secrets" is still one of the most socially productive ways you might use it for. Jumping on the bandwagon of a dubious social consensus can be a lot worse.
  - KerrAvon 5y ago
    He literally funded Trump. “Productive” sometimes isn’t desirable.
    - not1ofU 5y ago
      and facebook
    - tartoran 5y ago
      Was surprised by that too and am wondering what he could have gained out of that. Thiel is an intelligent guy but something about him seems dubious but can’t really point my finger at it.
      - squarefoot 5y ago
        Stupid people can do bad things without thinking, but when intelligent ones do it's always because there is an agenda.
        mmastrac 5y ago
        Perhaps to tear down the society we have now to replace it with a Libertarian paradise.
        kcplate 5y ago
        Sounds good to me…
      - s1artibartfast 5y ago
        A lot of libertarians were attracted to Trumps anti-regulation and anti-bureaucracy policy positions. At a minimum, they got 3 originalist supreme court justices out of it.
      - jrm4 5y ago
        This is a really easy question if you pay attention to his whole "maybe people don't know what's best for themselves" schtick.

mrandish 5y ago

> but his love for secrets make him dangerous I understood the part about "secrets" differently. I read Thiel's book about entrepreneurial mindset, Zero to One, a few years ago and found it valuable. As a long-time serial entrepreneur myself (initially unsuccessful and eventually quite successful), Thiel clearly understands the complex dynamics deeply and offers actionable insights. One of the things Thiel touches on is how entrepreneurs are often contrarians trying to identify the occasional exceptions where mainstream thinking got something important wrong. Paul Graham also talks about this, observing that entrepreneurs aren't just looking for "good ideas", they are looking for "good ideas most people are wrong about". This is necessary because if most people hadn't missed something then the "good idea" would already be a hotly contested mature market with deep-pocketed big players slugging it out for dominance. Pretty much by definition, a high-growth start-up must believe they've identified some aspect of the opportunity other smart people missed. The start-up might be wrong but when they are correct it can be both disruptive and transformative. This is the context in which I read the discussion of "secrets"

jrm4 5y ago
I don't disagree with a single thing you're saying here. I really like Zero to One as well, and I think a lot of people could benefit from that theory-- --but still, scale matters. Once a guy in love with that kind of theory begins to be this rich and powerful, he becomes dangerous.