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This brings to mind the time I was at the national art gallery listening to a tour/talk by a well renowned sculptor. Somebody in the group gestured to one of t

This brings to mind the time I was at the national art gallery listening to a tour/talk by a well renowned sculptor. Somebody in the group gestured to one of the pieces and asked “does the transition of the floor from green to grey signify the subject’s disillusionment with current environmental policies and the increasing hopelessness of contemporary civilization?” The artist’s reply was “I ran out of green.”

TomK32 5y ago
Samuel Beckett on the question who or what is Godot answered "If I knew, I would have said so in the play." [1] [1] https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/97/08/03/reviews/20046.html https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/97/08/03/r...
voidfunc 5y ago
I have a liberal arts degree and this reminds me so hard of basically every literary or artwork analysis I did. People spending way too much time trying to come up with the most bullshit interpretation of things.
- gonehome 5y ago
  It reminds me of that pg essay - the more bogus the liberal arts the more bullshit is used to obscure and complicate meaning. It was specifically about writing, but the attempt to over complicate still applies imo. “And then of course there are cases where writers don't want to make it easy to understand what they're saying—in corporate announcements of bad news, for example, or at the more bogus end of the humanities. But for nearly everyone else, spoken language is better.” http://paulgraham.com/talk.html http://paulgraham.com/talk.html
- prox 5y ago
  Studied too. First thing my teacher said “You have the world of artists, we create whatever we feel the need to create. And there is a completely different world of the art critic. Never let the two meet. There is no license to paint.”
kennywinker 5y ago
To push back a little on this “it’s not that deep” line of thinking - maybe not in this case but certainly in the past when colours were rare and expensive - “i ran out of green” is something an artist with a patron or a wealthy background would be much less likely to say - while another artist with less sound financials might be constantly running short of green. The colours used by an artist can hint at their financial position, it is certainly influenced by the science of pigments at the time, and even global trade patterns, extreme weather events in the past, war, etc. I ran out of green can mean different things depending on circumstances. Some of those things are pretty interesting. Sometimes even a not that deep reason is actually pretty deep. :)
- ivanhoe 5y ago
  The realistic style of old times also forced the authors to use subtle and hidden symbolism to express themselves so that the main story of the image (which was usually pre-ordered) was not affected. Paintings were meant to be a decoration or a source of religious inspiration, and certainly not an artist's personal expression - and they'd be out of business very quickly if they didn't follow the rules. Now we view the art very differently.
zitterbewegung 5y ago
One day I was doing a presentation about my startup and one of the video files wasn't playing so I had to stall for time. I gave an anecdote about my background and after the presentation people started asking me if I did standup comedy and I responded "I guess I do now". Also, I think I was stalling too well because people remember me being funny instead of what the presentation was about ...
dbuxton 5y ago
Reminds me of this James Blunt tweet I saw the other day: https://twitter.com/JamesBlunt/status/1485182825070567432 https://twitter.com/JamesBlunt/status/1485182825070567432
- Digit-Al 5y ago
  James Blunt is always entertaining on twitter. He's one of the few people who manage to turn that toxic turd into gold.
Cass 5y ago
The fun thing about art criticism, and the reason I firmly believe in the "death of the author" school of critique, is that even the choices an artist made in the face of constraints, or as a snap decision at three am, often do carry some meaning, and not always one the artist themselves recognize, either. Presumably they could've gone out and gotten more green. They could've transitioned to bright blue, or purple, or yellow. But they looked at the piece done in grey, and instead of going "Yikes, that's way more bleak than I thought it would be, I'm gonna buy some more green and redo this," they seem to be satisfied with the final piece. And that means that interpretations that find meaning in the color choice aren't necessarily invalid just because the artist wasn't consciously thinking about what they were doing when they ran out of green at 3 am. Or, for that matter, that an interpretation of an art piece can't be valid just because it's counter to what the artist themselves had in mind.
- willhinsa 5y ago
  I believe in “death of the author” because I know how GIF should be pronounced! I hope this comment is a gift of laughter to you in your day.
  - karmakaze 5y ago
    Does this mean that 'char' is also pronounced 'care'?
    - aspenmayer 5y ago
      When it’s short for character, sure.
      - mordymoop 5y ago
        Or “charisma”!
      - karmakaze 5y ago
        Are you being serious? I only knew one person who did this in real life, and even they said it almost like 'car'.
pmarreck 5y ago
I mean... They're kind of both right? That's the wonderful thing about art: it is kind of a free-form catalyst to your own interpretation EDIT: ah I see others have said essentially the same thing
code_duck 5y ago
This is what drove me nuts about literary and art classes, in addition to working in an artistic field. I would read artist statements from other artists and think wow, that’s a bit overblown, then talk to them, and it turned they thought it was BS too. But it was what curators and collectors were looking for. In literature classes, teachers would have specific interpretations about symbolism of small details and expect us to share the same interpretation and repeat it on tests.
- TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
  Curators and gallery owners absolutely demand this. "Everything you need to know is already hanging on the wall" is not considered an acceptable response. The work needs to question, challenge, interrogate, and subvert, and artists definitely need to Be Interested in specific culturally niche things. Lit crit, curation, the gallery scene, and visual and musical criticism are alternative industries - somewhere between symbiotic and parasitic on the creators who make the art. You can make a very fine career for yourself by developing a reputation for making outrageous statements about other people's work. Popular music journalism isn't too bad at this, but by the time you get to academia it all gets very rarefied, meta, bullshitty, and (in reality) aggressively careerist.

TomK32 5y ago

Samuel Beckett on the question who or what is Godot answered "If I knew, I would have said so in the play." [1] [1] https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/97/08/03/reviews/20046.html https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/97/08/03/r...

voidfunc 5y ago

I have a liberal arts degree and this reminds me so hard of basically every literary or artwork analysis I did. People spending way too much time trying to come up with the most bullshit interpretation of things.

gonehome 5y ago
It reminds me of that pg essay - the more bogus the liberal arts the more bullshit is used to obscure and complicate meaning. It was specifically about writing, but the attempt to over complicate still applies imo. “And then of course there are cases where writers don't want to make it easy to understand what they're saying—in corporate announcements of bad news, for example, or at the more bogus end of the humanities. But for nearly everyone else, spoken language is better.” http://paulgraham.com/talk.html http://paulgraham.com/talk.html
prox 5y ago
Studied too. First thing my teacher said “You have the world of artists, we create whatever we feel the need to create. And there is a completely different world of the art critic. Never let the two meet. There is no license to paint.”

kennywinker 5y ago

To push back a little on this “it’s not that deep” line of thinking - maybe not in this case but certainly in the past when colours were rare and expensive - “i ran out of green” is something an artist with a patron or a wealthy background would be much less likely to say - while another artist with less sound financials might be constantly running short of green. The colours used by an artist can hint at their financial position, it is certainly influenced by the science of pigments at the time, and even global trade patterns, extreme weather events in the past, war, etc. I ran out of green can mean different things depending on circumstances. Some of those things are pretty interesting. Sometimes even a not that deep reason is actually pretty deep. :)

ivanhoe 5y ago
The realistic style of old times also forced the authors to use subtle and hidden symbolism to express themselves so that the main story of the image (which was usually pre-ordered) was not affected. Paintings were meant to be a decoration or a source of religious inspiration, and certainly not an artist's personal expression - and they'd be out of business very quickly if they didn't follow the rules. Now we view the art very differently.

zitterbewegung 5y ago

One day I was doing a presentation about my startup and one of the video files wasn't playing so I had to stall for time. I gave an anecdote about my background and after the presentation people started asking me if I did standup comedy and I responded "I guess I do now". Also, I think I was stalling too well because people remember me being funny instead of what the presentation was about ...

dbuxton 5y ago

Reminds me of this James Blunt tweet I saw the other day: https://twitter.com/JamesBlunt/status/1485182825070567432 https://twitter.com/JamesBlunt/status/1485182825070567432

Digit-Al 5y ago
James Blunt is always entertaining on twitter. He's one of the few people who manage to turn that toxic turd into gold.

Cass 5y ago

The fun thing about art criticism, and the reason I firmly believe in the "death of the author" school of critique, is that even the choices an artist made in the face of constraints, or as a snap decision at three am, often do carry some meaning, and not always one the artist themselves recognize, either. Presumably they could've gone out and gotten more green. They could've transitioned to bright blue, or purple, or yellow. But they looked at the piece done in grey, and instead of going "Yikes, that's way more bleak than I thought it would be, I'm gonna buy some more green and redo this," they seem to be satisfied with the final piece. And that means that interpretations that find meaning in the color choice aren't necessarily invalid just because the artist wasn't consciously thinking about what they were doing when they ran out of green at 3 am. Or, for that matter, that an interpretation of an art piece can't be valid just because it's counter to what the artist themselves had in mind.

willhinsa 5y ago
I believe in “death of the author” because I know how GIF should be pronounced! I hope this comment is a gift of laughter to you in your day.
- karmakaze 5y ago
  Does this mean that 'char' is also pronounced 'care'?
  - aspenmayer 5y ago
    When it’s short for character, sure.
    - mordymoop 5y ago
      Or “charisma”!
    - karmakaze 5y ago
      Are you being serious? I only knew one person who did this in real life, and even they said it almost like 'car'.

pmarreck 5y ago

I mean... They're kind of both right? That's the wonderful thing about art: it is kind of a free-form catalyst to your own interpretation EDIT: ah I see others have said essentially the same thing

code_duck 5y ago

This is what drove me nuts about literary and art classes, in addition to working in an artistic field. I would read artist statements from other artists and think wow, that’s a bit overblown, then talk to them, and it turned they thought it was BS too. But it was what curators and collectors were looking for. In literature classes, teachers would have specific interpretations about symbolism of small details and expect us to share the same interpretation and repeat it on tests.

TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
Curators and gallery owners absolutely demand this. "Everything you need to know is already hanging on the wall" is not considered an acceptable response. The work needs to question, challenge, interrogate, and subvert, and artists definitely need to Be Interested in specific culturally niche things. Lit crit, curation, the gallery scene, and visual and musical criticism are alternative industries - somewhere between symbiotic and parasitic on the creators who make the art. You can make a very fine career for yourself by developing a reputation for making outrageous statements about other people's work. Popular music journalism isn't too bad at this, but by the time you get to academia it all gets very rarefied, meta, bullshitty, and (in reality) aggressively careerist.