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Hot(ish) take is to note how many of these apply to corporate work situations and also to various flavours of nationalism.
by TheOtherHobbes 5y ago
Hot(ish) take is to note how many of these apply to corporate work situations and also to various flavours of nationalism.
- robertlagrant 5y agoAnd wokeism.
- hughrr 5y agoEvery time I read that word I die a bit inside. One word purposed to discourage and disempower positive social change.
- robertlagrant 5y agoNot at all. No doubt there are true believers who want to make the world a better place, but others also want to do that, but in a different way. That might make them a target for mobs and cancellation, but not for accusations of not wanting positive social change.
- avs733 5y agoLord…three comments. Three comments in before “don’t be a jerk to people different than you” is called a cult.
- zarzavat 5y agoSadly there are many people who preach that without taking their own advice.
- freen 5y agoIt always astonishes me the degree to which “don’t be an asshole” is considered a radical position. oh, zarzavat, of course, you are obviously correct: it’s the people who sell “F#%K your feelings” t-shirts at rallies and wave nazi flags at “legitimate political discourse” who really care about others. Trump: truly an empathetic person, deeply caring about others. Assholes never like being told they are assholes. It’s unsurprising that they believe everyone else is just as mean as they are.
- skinkestek 5y ago> It always astonishes me the degree to which “don’t be an asshole” is considered a radical position. That is not what wokeism means. Wokeism is about - making boys and men feel shameful for being boys and men - making white people feel shameful for being white - and other such things. What you talk about is not something that any reasonable HNer would call wokeism.
- antris 5y agoIf you think this type of "wokeism" exists in this society in any powerful form, you are delusional. You're upset at a few people making hot takes on the internet, while the worlds powerful institutions are built upon white male supremacy.
- skinkestek 5y ago> If you think this type of "wokeism" exists in this society in any powerful form, you are delusional. This is lited almost straight from the article isn't it? "If you disagree with our group you are dumb." > while the worlds powerful institutions are built upon white male supremacy. See what I wrote above about trying to make people ashamed to be born white or male.
- antris 5y agoI didn't say you were dumb or that you should be ashamed. I'm just saying such "wokeism" doesn't exist. Interesting how you see this as a personal attack. Also I'm not representing any "group". I'm just speaking for myself. Seems like you see this as some kind of team sports?
- skinkestek 5y ago> I didn't say you were dumb or that you should be ashamed. You did say that white males where the root of the problem. I am a white male.
- anonymoushn 5y agoI don't think that's what anyone actually means when they say that.
- avs733 5y agoYou’re right! It is used to play the strategic ambiguity game. Where what one means when they say it is never the same as what it means when they are asked to explain what they mean.
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- antris 5y agoWelcome to HN. And if instead of just a throwaway two-word dig it would be a longer comment with big words and superficially logical-sounding lazy argumentation that has been debunked countless times, it would likely be upvoted.
- iqanq 5y agoHN is one of the most echo chamberish communities on the internet and there are people who want them to be even more closed!
- thinkingemote 5y agoIronically almost every religious cult has “don’t be a jerk to people different than you” as one of it's highest precepts. Cults operate differently - it's not what they believe, it's how they behave in the world. Not saying wokeism is a cult at all, but that religious cults often have Good Well Intentions. Precepts don't make a cult. (A healthy religion encourages love and tolerance to those in the outgroup e.g "love your enemy") But it's good that "people different than you" is mentioned when it comes to cults, but it's the other way around. The group is often labelled as different before it's labelled as a cult. One way to quickly determine if something is a cult or not is if they have isolated themselves from the world, or if it's just those outside people saying "they are different from us". Conspiracy theories are quite common in cults as it's one way for people to define an us/them idea which isolates the in group. In wokeism the theory could be that the outgroup is a conspiracy of crypto-fascist white supremacists. In trumpism the theory could be that the outgroup is a conspiracy of cultural marxist disruptors.
- freen 5y agoThey aren’t very well hidden: they proudly wave the flag of traitorous slavers. Confederate history month still exists in a bunch of states. Have you seen the nazi flags at trump rallies? Jan 6th?
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- thinkingemote 5y agoAlmost every group has a theory about the people who are different than them. Sometimes the theory is based on some truths, but it's a theory, and a theory cannot represent the whole truth. Often conspiracy theories as a whole are simplified explanations of reality. There may well be based on actual evidence. They are perversely comforting to hold. To know you are in a chosen group who really knows whats going on, that there is a clearly defined enemy that can be hated... That is psychologically comforting compared to not knowing whats going on in life. It's why every political group will define their enemy. It is more scary to not know why the world is what it is. Imagine a world of today where no one is responsible for the state of it! Conspiracy theories in cults increase in-group cohesion and decrease tolerance to those different from the group as those outside the group are often part of the conspiracy. Conspiracy theories are mostly a pattern such as "we see these clear signs and occurrences in the world, therefore people in power are in a secret conspiracy to take over the world to bring in a hell on earth". Conspiracy theories are encompassing explanations of reality too. They can explain missing facts, they can explain alternative explanations, they provide a narrative to unknowns, contradictory facts and evidence can be used to show how the conspiracy is working. It's very hard to see whether one is within the spell of a cult or a conspiracy theory when one is in the middle of one. The best way to crack a cult member is to get them to see their in group / out group behaviour from the outside. So, "Why are you are jerk to people different than you?" is actually a really good question!
- kcplate 5y agoEvery person I know who considers themselves “woke” is pretty regularly jerkish to everyone who they consider to be not woke…so I am not convinced your definition is entirely accurate.
- robertlagrant 5y agoAt some point I think it's worth considering whether all the massive wealth of evidence that wokeism isn't that has to take effect. I don't think you can forever rely on the idea that "Those people are jerks and I'm not." If you need to stick with "who's doing something; I want to be like them" rather than "what're the facts and beliefs involved", then surely Bill Maher regularly calling out woke mobs has to count for something.
- skinkestek 5y ago3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and to a certain degree 9 reminds me more about certain about some anti religious groups (or even just twitter mobs) than any of the religious groups I know. (I admit I might be lucky here.)
- timeon 5y agoAnd 1 to 10 religious ones.
- freen 5y ago/r/theDonald refer to him as “god-emperor”
- iamacyborg 5y agoTangentially related but interesting read on the fascist problem in Warhammer 40k and how a lot of 40k imagery got used as pro-Trump memes. https://www.themarysue.com/warhammer-40k-fandom-fascism/ https://www.themarysue.com/warhammer-40k-fandom-fascism/
- mrslave 5y agoAnd now let's be intellectually dishonest and pretend like they meant it literally. On Reddit.
- geraneum 5y agoPlease allow me to reword this faithfully: What about Wokeism?
- goodpoint 5y agoSpot on! People usually think "we are not cultish because this is not a religion". Such denial is the most cultish aspect around coporate workship and nationalism.