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Are you in a Religious Cult? Take the test
- TheOtherHobbes 5y agoHot(ish) take is to note how many of these apply to corporate work situations and also to various flavours of nationalism.
- robertlagrant 5y agoAnd wokeism.
- hughrr 5y agoEvery time I read that word I die a bit inside. One word purposed to discourage and disempower positive social change.
- robertlagrant 5y agoNot at all. No doubt there are true believers who want to make the world a better place, but others also want to do that, but in a different way. That might make them a target for mobs and cancellation, but not for accusations of not wanting positive social change.
- avs733 5y agoLord…three comments. Three comments in before “don’t be a jerk to people different than you” is called a cult.
- zarzavat 5y agoSadly there are many people who preach that without taking their own advice.
- freen 5y agoIt always astonishes me the degree to which “don’t be an asshole” is considered a radical position. oh, zarzavat, of course, you are obviously correct: it’s the people who sell “F#%K your feelings” t-shirts at rallies and wave nazi flags at “legitimate political discourse” who really care about others. Trump: truly an empathetic person, deeply caring about others. Assholes never like being told they are assholes. It’s unsurprising that they believe everyone else is just as mean as they are.
- skinkestek 5y ago> It always astonishes me the degree to which “don’t be an asshole” is considered a radical position. That is not what wokeism means. Wokeism is about - making boys and men feel shameful for being boys and men - making white people feel shameful for being white - and other such things. What you talk about is not something that any reasonable HNer would call wokeism.
- antris 5y agoIf you think this type of "wokeism" exists in this society in any powerful form, you are delusional. You're upset at a few people making hot takes on the internet, while the worlds powerful institutions are built upon white male supremacy.
- skinkestek 5y ago> If you think this type of "wokeism" exists in this society in any powerful form, you are delusional. This is lited almost straight from the article isn't it? "If you disagree with our group you are dumb." > while the worlds powerful institutions are built upon white male supremacy. See what I wrote above about trying to make people ashamed to be born white or male.
- antris 5y agoI didn't say you were dumb or that you should be ashamed. I'm just saying such "wokeism" doesn't exist. Interesting how you see this as a personal attack. Also I'm not representing any "group". I'm just speaking for myself. Seems like you see this as some kind of team sports?
- anonymoushn 5y agoI don't think that's what anyone actually means when they say that.
- avs733 5y agoYou’re right! It is used to play the strategic ambiguity game. Where what one means when they say it is never the same as what it means when they are asked to explain what they mean.
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- antris 5y agoWelcome to HN. And if instead of just a throwaway two-word dig it would be a longer comment with big words and superficially logical-sounding lazy argumentation that has been debunked countless times, it would likely be upvoted.
- iqanq 5y agoHN is one of the most echo chamberish communities on the internet and there are people who want them to be even more closed!
- thinkingemote 5y agoIronically almost every religious cult has “don’t be a jerk to people different than you” as one of it's highest precepts. Cults operate differently - it's not what they believe, it's how they behave in the world. Not saying wokeism is a cult at all, but that religious cults often have Good Well Intentions. Precepts don't make a cult. (A healthy religion encourages love and tolerance to those in the outgroup e.g "love your enemy") But it's good that "people different than you" is mentioned when it comes to cults, but it's the other way around. The group is often labelled as different before it's labelled as a cult. One way to quickly determine if something is a cult or not is if they have isolated themselves from the world, or if it's just those outside people saying "they are different from us". Conspiracy theories are quite common in cults as it's one way for people to define an us/them idea which isolates the in group. In wokeism the theory could be that the outgroup is a conspiracy of crypto-fascist white supremacists. In trumpism the theory could be that the outgroup is a conspiracy of cultural marxist disruptors.
- freen 5y agoThey aren’t very well hidden: they proudly wave the flag of traitorous slavers. Confederate history month still exists in a bunch of states. Have you seen the nazi flags at trump rallies? Jan 6th?
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- thinkingemote 5y agoAlmost every group has a theory about the people who are different than them. Sometimes the theory is based on some truths, but it's a theory, and a theory cannot represent the whole truth. Often conspiracy theories as a whole are simplified explanations of reality. There may well be based on actual evidence. They are perversely comforting to hold. To know you are in a chosen group who really knows whats going on, that there is a clearly defined enemy that can be hated... That is psychologically comforting compared to not knowing whats going on in life. It's why every political group will define their enemy. It is more scary to not know why the world is what it is. Imagine a world of today where no one is responsible for the state of it! Conspiracy theories in cults increase in-group cohesion and decrease tolerance to those different from the group as those outside the group are often part of the conspiracy. Conspiracy theories are mostly a pattern such as "we see these clear signs and occurrences in the world, therefore people in power are in a secret conspiracy to take over the world to bring in a hell on earth". Conspiracy theories are encompassing explanations of reality too. They can explain missing facts, they can explain alternative explanations, they provide a narrative to unknowns, contradictory facts and evidence can be used to show how the conspiracy is working. It's very hard to see whether one is within the spell of a cult or a conspiracy theory when one is in the middle of one. The best way to crack a cult member is to get them to see their in group / out group behaviour from the outside. So, "Why are you are jerk to people different than you?" is actually a really good question!
- kcplate 5y agoEvery person I know who considers themselves “woke” is pretty regularly jerkish to everyone who they consider to be not woke…so I am not convinced your definition is entirely accurate.
- robertlagrant 5y agoAt some point I think it's worth considering whether all the massive wealth of evidence that wokeism isn't that has to take effect. I don't think you can forever rely on the idea that "Those people are jerks and I'm not." If you need to stick with "who's doing something; I want to be like them" rather than "what're the facts and beliefs involved", then surely Bill Maher regularly calling out woke mobs has to count for something.
- skinkestek 5y ago3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and to a certain degree 9 reminds me more about certain about some anti religious groups (or even just twitter mobs) than any of the religious groups I know. (I admit I might be lucky here.)
- timeon 5y agoAnd 1 to 10 religious ones.
- freen 5y ago/r/theDonald refer to him as “god-emperor”
- iamacyborg 5y agoTangentially related but interesting read on the fascist problem in Warhammer 40k and how a lot of 40k imagery got used as pro-Trump memes. https://www.themarysue.com/warhammer-40k-fandom-fascism/ https://www.themarysue.com/warhammer-40k-fandom-fascism/
- mrslave 5y agoAnd now let's be intellectually dishonest and pretend like they meant it literally. On Reddit.
- geraneum 5y agoPlease allow me to reword this faithfully: What about Wokeism?
- goodpoint 5y agoSpot on! People usually think "we are not cultish because this is not a religion". Such denial is the most cultish aspect around coporate workship and nationalism.
- stpe 5y ago> Is your leader the ultimate authority of your group? Yes. Selected by, and sole connection to the mythical group "board". > Does your leader have impressive, made-up names or titles? Yes. "Chief Executive Officer". > As far as your group is concerned, would they say that there is no legitimate reason to leave them? Yes... if ever trying to leave, you are technically bribed with something that you cannot use in stores or pay rent. They call it "equity". > Is your group suspicious about the outside world? Yes. Always this talk about how the outside world is "the competition". Sometimes "the users. > Does your group believe that they are the ‘right’ religion/church/group/ones, or only ones, who have ‘right’ teaching/doctrine? Yes. "The competition" is wrong. > Are there any of the above such rules/laws in your group? Yes. Rules are in "the handbook". ... /S
- wedn3sday 5y ago> The leader determines the rules/laws and expects to be obeyed or else there are consequences. Rules/laws can include what you can’t wear. Dont question the mandatory dress code
- steeleduncan 5y ago> /S Really? Cults are extreme, and socially undesirable, entities. Companies are less extreme, and arguably socially beneficial, entities. However, both entities are use essentially the same psychological tools of manipulation. I don't think this comment should be seen as facetious so much as an insight on how company structures control employees.
- 5y ago
- dr_dshiv 5y agoNot nearly enough cult activity in the modern era. Waiting for something chill, ideally psychedelic, not too weird, good parties. Initiations are must.
- williamtwild 5y agoTaco tuesday
- wedn3sday 5y agoSign me up. I just want to live in the forest, eat mushrooms, and occasionally dance naked around a fire under the light of the full moon. Is that to much to ask for?
- thenoblesunfish 5y agoMaybe it’s just the golden logo, but this quiz feels like the first step towards joining a cult.
- 123pie123 5y agoI think a few political parties fit the bill of being a cult
- threatofrain 5y agoHow many political parties can even be represented by a single personality guru?
- damiencarol 5y agoMany questions are subjective. This kind of invalidate the whole test.. :> - Does your leader have impressive, made-up names or titles? - Is your group suspicious about the outside world? - If you were to leave your religious group, would remaining members, even family members separate themselves from you whereby there would be any emotional detachment? - If you were to leave your religious group, would remaining members separate themselves from you and cease to have normal family life as in any of the above examples?
- throwaway960 5y agoI'll be shot down for this, but Musk and his followers seem to fit the bill here. A supreme leader with otherwordly powers, who can't be criticized (as when people cheered him on after the Unsworth trial), who can cause harm to people with impunity because he can do no wrong, and so on. It's all about him, and he is the only path to breakthrough technology. The Muskovites seem significantly cult-like in this way.
- guerrilla 5y agoKnowing one of these people, this is the first thing I thought of.
- thinkingemote 5y agoCults are generally classified by those outside the organisation. (_points_ "That is a cult!"). But this very classification helps to reinforce any us/them ingroup/outgroup behaviours which we see actual cults doing ("Don't trust those outside, only trust the ingroup"). Real cults isolate and the isolation increases with attack from outside. A cultish group that is not attacked may not actually radicalise. This is also a way to determine whether a group of people that has been labelled a cult isn't actually one: Look at how the group defines itself with regards to those outside. How does the group see itself in the world. We see today many groups labelled as cults which in reality are not so. The label has become a kind of strategy for attack based on an intolerant difference ("they are different") rather than an accurate descriptive label ("they isolate themselves from us"). Tolerance in a society is tolerance towards difference.
- eloisius 5y agoThey may not radicalize into a Waco Siege situation, but they will likely continue to rob numerous naive members of their money, livelihood, and their children’s opportunities.
- thinkingemote 5y agoYes. Maybe radicalise was the wrong word. Too many "terrorism" connotations.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- goodpoint 5y agoThe second half of the questions looks accurate, especially around emotional manipulation, but the first half is dubious. A lot of benign organizations would score some points, from firefighters (wearing an uniform) to a bunch of friends playing D&D, to taking beginner painting class (the teacher is not there to be questioned on their painting sytle).
- vaporup 5y ago
- tragomaskhalos 5y agoI believe that Steven Hassan's BITE model is the gold-standard diagnostic here. The guy is an ex-moonie and has authored books that have helped people escape cults. Survivor communities like /r/exjw on Reddit speak highly of his stuff: https://freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model/ https://freedomofmind.com/cult-mind-control/bite-model/
- iqanq 5y agoI read all of this and it reminds me of the response to COVID. Ultimate authorities, no critical thinking, only believe approved sources, those who don't believe the authority are "deceived, backslidden, demonic, bitter, evil", the end of the world is near if you don't do as we say, they are always right even when they are wrong, family separation...
- usea 5y agoI genuinely don't understand this quiz. The very first question starts out by saying that cults have leaders, and then asking "Is your leader the ultimate authority of your group?" What leader? What group? How do I answer "Not applicable" or anything other than confirming that I'm in a cult already. Isn't this just begging the question? All the questions are like this. How am I supposed to know if I'm in a cult if all the questions presuppose that I'm already in one?
- chki 5y agoI don't think there's a presupposition that you're in a cult, instead the assumption is that you are a member of a religious group.
- Bancakes 5y agoCrazy how quickly the COVID comment got deleted.
- kitd 5y agoI have just been reading "Days of Rain" by Rebecca Stott, about her upbringing, and that of her father, in the Exclusive Brethren. This author covers all the same points and, yes, he has a book about his experience in, and leaving, the Brethren. For her, and I assume for him, in was tragically painful. The thing that really got me angry about the Brethren is the sheer hypocrisy. For all the talk of morality and being right with God, they are not above having $millions stashed away in bank accounts for the benefit of their leaders, evade taxes everywhere, and carry on regardless of the psychological suffering they cause, even up to the point of suicide. Look out for them influencing your politicians too. Here in the UK, they'll provide large numbers of volunteers to do the door-to-door canvassing for (normally Conservative) candidates who'll advocate for their shady practices. Edit: for clarity, I should say that the Open Brethren are a separate arm and are a far more bona fide Christian denomination.
- smitty1e 5y ago> 6: Is your group suspicious about the outside world? Why, yes; yes, we are. Whiff of nihilism in the air, and all.