14 ms·

The complete idiot's guide to OpenBSD on the Pinebook Pro

124 points by senzilla 5y ago

j4yav 5y ago
Are the idiot’s guides going through a euphemism treadmill? What’s next? The irredeemable moron’s guide to Nix?
- nix23 5y ago
  A complete idiot's guide to OpenBSD on the Pinebook Pro would have been a nicer title for the reader ;)
  - MobiusHorizons 5y ago
    Am I missing something? That is the title. Was it previously different?
    - j4yav 5y ago
      A (presumably describing the author) vs the (presumably describing the reader).
      - MobiusHorizons 5y ago
        Oh gotcha thanks
genewitch 5y ago
When the raspberry pi first launched I managed to get Gentoo on it with a USB hard disk, and I decided that was the last time I was going to go that crazy ever again. I also had some spare servers set up as distcc-pump servers, so very little got compiled on the pi. If this sort of thing pleases you, more power to you. We need those people and these write-ups to keep everything moving forward, or it's apple all the way down...
nix23 5y ago
My biggest problem with OpenBSD is the partitioning, do i want security? Then i need partitions with w^x but how big should they be without wasting to much space. I think OpenBSD would greatly benefit from stuff like zfs-filesystems or btrfs sub-partitions...and NO i don't say OpenBSD needs ZFS, just a more flexible partition mechanism, maybe overlay with quota or something?
- mrweasel 5y ago
  Having used OpenBSD and seeing how partitions and mount options are used to increase security, it’s really weird going back to a Linux system where everything is just one big partition. You’re right though, it’s really tricky getting the partition sizes right. The auto layout is sensible, I just feel that it set aside to much space for home and to little for var. Linux has all the tools to make use of partitions, but many distros still just go for one big partition. It seems counter intuitive.
  - xorcist 5y ago
    It's a relatively recent thing. Before that, all major Linux distributions gave you a bunch of different filesystems by default. Which is how all UNIX-like systems worked, for a number of historical reasons. This wasn't great in practice. One partition layout certainly doesn't fit everbody, and there is a world of difference between the use case of a laptop, a database server, and a small web server. Most people outgrew the default setup rather quickly. Over time installers tended to get the simplest use case as default, while allowing users with knowledge to choose their desired file system setup. Since more than a decade ago it's not necessary to choose since all major file systems have online resizing capabilities and you can change the setup without downtime. There's also no need to be limited by the age old partitioning format. That made the simple default even more appropriate.
    - anthk 5y ago
      BSD's don't use partitions, but slices. And, well, NetBSD it's pretty conservative, but OpenBSD's defaults are good for a desktop.
aspyct 5y ago
I'm amazed at how the openbsd community seems to like calling people idiots. I've been using various unices for about 20 years now, ranging from Slackware Linux to OpenSolaris to FreeBSD to Kubuntu. I gave openbsd a try a few years back, and found it utterly complicated to setup and use. And when you ask for help, you're treated like an idiot and the only reply you get is basically "rtfm". No joke, one of the guys said "Grey Unix beards are formed in suffering". Granted, a lot of stuff is in the documentation. But also a lot of stuff isn't. Your edge case from laptop X isn't documented, and you're still considered an idiot if you can't solve it. Even the title of this article reflects that mindset.
- Arnavion 5y ago
  So when you were told to RTFM, did you find the answer in the manual? If you didn't, did you tell them, and how did they respond? I don't have any experience with OpenBSD or its community, but I'm in several (Linux-related) communities that would also tell you to RTFM if you were to ask a question that we expect is answered in the FM. And we would be happy to be corrected if you came back and told us it wasn't there, or even better if you told us when you initially asked your question that you did read such-and-such parts of the FM and did not find the answer. You could even become the one to update the manual to add the missing info for the next soul who has the same problem. Basically what I'm getting at is that lots of small communities don't have the resources or inclination to answer the same questions over and over again. Yes the response may not be polite, and if that puts you off of using the software then so be it, but some level of self-help and doing-your-homework is expected before asking questions.
  - aspyct 5y ago
    You didn't read my whole comment, did you? I said "edge cases for laptop X". Of course I read the FM. Of course I did my homework before asking question. But that's it, right there: just considering that, by default, newcomers are incapable of reading the documentation. You just did it.
    - Arnavion 5y ago
Fuhrer01 5y ago
briandear 5y ago
“Pinebook Pro?” Seems like an attempt to make it should Apple-like in naming. Why the need to try and piggyback off Apple? I take it less seriously because of the obvious attempt at invoking Apple. A gimmick name.

124 points by senzilla 5y ago

j4yav 5y ago

Are the idiot’s guides going through a euphemism treadmill? What’s next? The irredeemable moron’s guide to Nix?

nix23 5y ago
A complete idiot's guide to OpenBSD on the Pinebook Pro would have been a nicer title for the reader ;)
- MobiusHorizons 5y ago
  Am I missing something? That is the title. Was it previously different?
  - j4yav 5y ago
    A (presumably describing the author) vs the (presumably describing the reader).
    - MobiusHorizons 5y ago
      Oh gotcha thanks

genewitch 5y ago

When the raspberry pi first launched I managed to get Gentoo on it with a USB hard disk, and I decided that was the last time I was going to go that crazy ever again. I also had some spare servers set up as distcc-pump servers, so very little got compiled on the pi. If this sort of thing pleases you, more power to you. We need those people and these write-ups to keep everything moving forward, or it's apple all the way down...

nix23 5y ago

My biggest problem with OpenBSD is the partitioning, do i want security? Then i need partitions with w^x but how big should they be without wasting to much space. I think OpenBSD would greatly benefit from stuff like zfs-filesystems or btrfs sub-partitions...and NO i don't say OpenBSD needs ZFS, just a more flexible partition mechanism, maybe overlay with quota or something?

mrweasel 5y ago
Having used OpenBSD and seeing how partitions and mount options are used to increase security, it’s really weird going back to a Linux system where everything is just one big partition. You’re right though, it’s really tricky getting the partition sizes right. The auto layout is sensible, I just feel that it set aside to much space for home and to little for var. Linux has all the tools to make use of partitions, but many distros still just go for one big partition. It seems counter intuitive.
- xorcist 5y ago
  It's a relatively recent thing. Before that, all major Linux distributions gave you a bunch of different filesystems by default. Which is how all UNIX-like systems worked, for a number of historical reasons. This wasn't great in practice. One partition layout certainly doesn't fit everbody, and there is a world of difference between the use case of a laptop, a database server, and a small web server. Most people outgrew the default setup rather quickly. Over time installers tended to get the simplest use case as default, while allowing users with knowledge to choose their desired file system setup. Since more than a decade ago it's not necessary to choose since all major file systems have online resizing capabilities and you can change the setup without downtime. There's also no need to be limited by the age old partitioning format. That made the simple default even more appropriate.
  - anthk 5y ago
    BSD's don't use partitions, but slices. And, well, NetBSD it's pretty conservative, but OpenBSD's defaults are good for a desktop.

aspyct 5y ago

I'm amazed at how the openbsd community seems to like calling people idiots. I've been using various unices for about 20 years now, ranging from Slackware Linux to OpenSolaris to FreeBSD to Kubuntu. I gave openbsd a try a few years back, and found it utterly complicated to setup and use. And when you ask for help, you're treated like an idiot and the only reply you get is basically "rtfm". No joke, one of the guys said "Grey Unix beards are formed in suffering". Granted, a lot of stuff is in the documentation. But also a lot of stuff isn't. Your edge case from laptop X isn't documented, and you're still considered an idiot if you can't solve it. Even the title of this article reflects that mindset.

Arnavion 5y ago
So when you were told to RTFM, did you find the answer in the manual? If you didn't, did you tell them, and how did they respond? I don't have any experience with OpenBSD or its community, but I'm in several (Linux-related) communities that would also tell you to RTFM if you were to ask a question that we expect is answered in the FM. And we would be happy to be corrected if you came back and told us it wasn't there, or even better if you told us when you initially asked your question that you did read such-and-such parts of the FM and did not find the answer. You could even become the one to update the manual to add the missing info for the next soul who has the same problem. Basically what I'm getting at is that lots of small communities don't have the resources or inclination to answer the same questions over and over again. Yes the response may not be polite, and if that puts you off of using the software then so be it, but some level of self-help and doing-your-homework is expected before asking questions.
- aspyct 5y ago
  You didn't read my whole comment, did you? I said "edge cases for laptop X". Of course I read the FM. Of course I did my homework before asking question. But that's it, right there: just considering that, by default, newcomers are incapable of reading the documentation. You just did it.
  - Arnavion 5y ago

Fuhrer01 5y ago

briandear 5y ago

“Pinebook Pro?” Seems like an attempt to make it should Apple-like in naming. Why the need to try and piggyback off Apple? I take it less seriously because of the obvious attempt at invoking Apple. A gimmick name.