4 ms·

Important to note that once you adjust for the base rate (gay men being well under 10% of the population), the risk among gay men is still much much higher.

pengaru 5y ago
Inclined to agree, but I feel it's potentially dangerous to think these are actually distinct populations. Plenty of HIV+ "hetero" folks are hiding their homosexual activities, for myriad obvious reasons, i.e. the stats probably aren't accurate. Don't assume you're particularly well insulated because you think you're playing bareback in the non-gay pool. Plenty of folks are pissing in all the pools, there are no boundaries.
- reedjosh 5y ago
  It's not just about pools of people. Anal sex is inherently more dangerous regarding STDs.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - pengaru 5y ago
    > It's not just about pools of people. Anal sex is inherently more dangerous regarding STDs. As if heterosexuals don't have anal sex. Back in my teens it was a running joke that the catholic girls would only do anal before marriage, give me a break dude.
    - legalcorrection 5y ago
      So even assuming that this very old meme was ever true to any significant degree (why would you think it is?), do you really think straight people are anywhere near as likely to engage in anal sex with massive numbers of partners like gays are? Do you know how gay bath houses used to work? A guy could go to one of those and have anal sex with a dozen men in a day. And then go back the next day or next week for a different dozen men. It was so bad that San Francisco only allowed them to reopen like two years ago, having originally forced them shut in the 80s. San Francisco!
      - pengaru 5y ago
        I assume a lot of gay men are informed of the risks and opt for alternatives like oral and/or hand jobs on the regular. Attended a catholic private school growing up in an extremely conservative+religious part of the midwest, not really interested in divulging anything more personal than that on the subject. But I can confirm it's not a pure myth.
      - pdenton 5y ago
        I'm firmly against woke culture, where you'd be attacked personally for writing up some homophobic vitriol. I don't want to live in a place like that, and I won't go anywhere near San Francisco. Instead, here's a reminder that being prejudiced is quite normal. It's easier to associate gay people with promiscuity, to connect those dots, than to think of people differently along so many axioms of different traits. I'm reminding myself as well. Can't judge another with one finger without the remaining fingers pointed at myself (well except for the thumb).
        legalcorrection 5y ago
        No prejudice here. Some gay people are promiscuous. Some straight people are promiscuous. Some straight people have anal sex. Some gay people have anal sex. But what's also true is that gay people on average are much more promiscuous and much more likely to have anal sex. This is obvious to anyone who knows any significant number of gay people. And it is also reflected in countless surveys.
        pdenton 5y ago
        As a bisexual, I've met more promiscuous women than men.
    - klyrs 5y ago
      This isn't just a joke among students at BYU, either.
woodruffw 5y ago
I replied with this in a thread further up, but I'll put it here as well: gay men get tested for HIV much more frequently than heterosexual men do. HIV diagnosis rates are subject to both a latent rate bias and a skewed sampling bias: if the average gay man gets tested 10 times (factor chosen at random) as often as the average straight man, then we would expect higher positive diagnoses in a smaller population without as much (if any) underlying difference in true positive rates.
- legalcorrection 5y ago
  The problem with your whole little theory is that when previously undiagnosed HIV kills you (and it does), it doesn't do it without the doctors figuring out you have HIV. Do you really believe that HIV rates for straight and gay people are comparable?
  - woodruffw 5y ago
    It's not a theory. You can look at the raw testing data from the UK yourself[1]: the gay male population takes HIV tests at 10 times the rate of the straight male population. I'm not saying that the infection rates are comparable, because I don't have any hard data to support that. But the story is much more nuanced than "gay people are significantly more likely to give each other HIV," and will continue to gain nuance over time. [1]: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1037215/hiv-2021-report.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...
    - legalcorrection 5y ago
      You just ignored my whole point that HIV doesn't secretly kill people in Western countries. By the time someone dies, the medical system knows whether they had HIV. Either we catch it early enough to successfully or somewhat successfully manage it, or we catch it once it starts killing you.
      - woodruffw 5y ago

pengaru 5y ago

Inclined to agree, but I feel it's potentially dangerous to think these are actually distinct populations. Plenty of HIV+ "hetero" folks are hiding their homosexual activities, for myriad obvious reasons, i.e. the stats probably aren't accurate. Don't assume you're particularly well insulated because you think you're playing bareback in the non-gay pool. Plenty of folks are pissing in all the pools, there are no boundaries.

reedjosh 5y ago
It's not just about pools of people. Anal sex is inherently more dangerous regarding STDs.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- pengaru 5y ago
  > It's not just about pools of people. Anal sex is inherently more dangerous regarding STDs. As if heterosexuals don't have anal sex. Back in my teens it was a running joke that the catholic girls would only do anal before marriage, give me a break dude.
  - legalcorrection 5y ago
    So even assuming that this very old meme was ever true to any significant degree (why would you think it is?), do you really think straight people are anywhere near as likely to engage in anal sex with massive numbers of partners like gays are? Do you know how gay bath houses used to work? A guy could go to one of those and have anal sex with a dozen men in a day. And then go back the next day or next week for a different dozen men. It was so bad that San Francisco only allowed them to reopen like two years ago, having originally forced them shut in the 80s. San Francisco!
    - pengaru 5y ago
      I assume a lot of gay men are informed of the risks and opt for alternatives like oral and/or hand jobs on the regular. Attended a catholic private school growing up in an extremely conservative+religious part of the midwest, not really interested in divulging anything more personal than that on the subject. But I can confirm it's not a pure myth.
    - pdenton 5y ago
      I'm firmly against woke culture, where you'd be attacked personally for writing up some homophobic vitriol. I don't want to live in a place like that, and I won't go anywhere near San Francisco. Instead, here's a reminder that being prejudiced is quite normal. It's easier to associate gay people with promiscuity, to connect those dots, than to think of people differently along so many axioms of different traits. I'm reminding myself as well. Can't judge another with one finger without the remaining fingers pointed at myself (well except for the thumb).
      - legalcorrection 5y ago
        No prejudice here. Some gay people are promiscuous. Some straight people are promiscuous. Some straight people have anal sex. Some gay people have anal sex. But what's also true is that gay people on average are much more promiscuous and much more likely to have anal sex. This is obvious to anyone who knows any significant number of gay people. And it is also reflected in countless surveys.
        pdenton 5y ago
        As a bisexual, I've met more promiscuous women than men.
  - klyrs 5y ago
    This isn't just a joke among students at BYU, either.

woodruffw 5y ago

I replied with this in a thread further up, but I'll put it here as well: gay men get tested for HIV much more frequently than heterosexual men do. HIV diagnosis rates are subject to both a latent rate bias and a skewed sampling bias: if the average gay man gets tested 10 times (factor chosen at random) as often as the average straight man, then we would expect higher positive diagnoses in a smaller population without as much (if any) underlying difference in true positive rates.

legalcorrection 5y ago
The problem with your whole little theory is that when previously undiagnosed HIV kills you (and it does), it doesn't do it without the doctors figuring out you have HIV. Do you really believe that HIV rates for straight and gay people are comparable?
- woodruffw 5y ago
  It's not a theory. You can look at the raw testing data from the UK yourself[1]: the gay male population takes HIV tests at 10 times the rate of the straight male population. I'm not saying that the infection rates are comparable, because I don't have any hard data to support that. But the story is much more nuanced than "gay people are significantly more likely to give each other HIV," and will continue to gain nuance over time. [1]: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1037215/hiv-2021-report.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...
  - legalcorrection 5y ago
    You just ignored my whole point that HIV doesn't secretly kill people in Western countries. By the time someone dies, the medical system knows whether they had HIV. Either we catch it early enough to successfully or somewhat successfully manage it, or we catch it once it starts killing you.
    - woodruffw 5y ago