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I think they are making a long-term bet here, likely in their ML models as they acquire millions of miles of driving data. The problem is an ethical one, as the

I think they are making a long-term bet here, likely in their ML models as they acquire millions of miles of driving data. The problem is an ethical one, as they are wagering today's safety, and the very real people and property that stand to be harmed.

clouddrover 5y ago
> The problem is an ethical one No, it's a reputational problem now. Musk and Tesla have pointlessly backed themselves into an anti-lidar corner. They're going to look foolish when they finally do add lidar to the cars. Lidar costs are reducing and it is making its way into more production cars: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-08/elon-musk-looks-increasingly-isolated-as-automakers-embrace-lidar https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-08/elon-musk...
- bdcravens 5y ago
  They are not mutually exclusive. A company can act (or choose not) based on affects on reputation, but this doesn't eliminate the ethical component of those decisions. You needn't consider the ethics of a decision for it to have ethical implications.
- paulmendoza 5y ago
  Vision seems to be working pretty well for them. I don’t see them changing course. FSD keeps improving.
  - clouddrover 5y ago
    Sure does: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbyNg9kYEq4&t=340s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbyNg9kYEq4&t=340s No problems: https://electrek.co/2022/02/04/tesla-full-self-driving-beta-crash-video/ https://electrek.co/2022/02/04/tesla-full-self-driving-beta-... It's working great: https://www.thedrive.com/news/44216/this-tesla-self-driving-fail-video-is-exactly-whats-wrong-with-tesla-stans https://www.thedrive.com/news/44216/this-tesla-self-driving-...
freemint 5y ago
The machine learning data also would be more valuable if it came with depth data. They could always produce future products which are camera only if their models would be good enough. It is probably just a means to get extra funding without having to spend much more on hardware.
- paulmendoza 5y ago
  They trained some of their initial depth vision networks with LiDAR.
salawat 5y ago
This has the same problem as hypothetical sales. You can justify anything if you're willing to accept it into your moral/ethical calculus. I prefer less rationalizatiom and Farquading of others.

clouddrover 5y ago

> The problem is an ethical one No, it's a reputational problem now. Musk and Tesla have pointlessly backed themselves into an anti-lidar corner. They're going to look foolish when they finally do add lidar to the cars. Lidar costs are reducing and it is making its way into more production cars: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-08/elon-musk-looks-increasingly-isolated-as-automakers-embrace-lidar https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-08/elon-musk...

bdcravens 5y ago
They are not mutually exclusive. A company can act (or choose not) based on affects on reputation, but this doesn't eliminate the ethical component of those decisions. You needn't consider the ethics of a decision for it to have ethical implications.
paulmendoza 5y ago
Vision seems to be working pretty well for them. I don’t see them changing course. FSD keeps improving.
- clouddrover 5y ago
  Sure does: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbyNg9kYEq4&t=340s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbyNg9kYEq4&t=340s No problems: https://electrek.co/2022/02/04/tesla-full-self-driving-beta-crash-video/ https://electrek.co/2022/02/04/tesla-full-self-driving-beta-... It's working great: https://www.thedrive.com/news/44216/this-tesla-self-driving-fail-video-is-exactly-whats-wrong-with-tesla-stans https://www.thedrive.com/news/44216/this-tesla-self-driving-...

freemint 5y ago

The machine learning data also would be more valuable if it came with depth data. They could always produce future products which are camera only if their models would be good enough. It is probably just a means to get extra funding without having to spend much more on hardware.

paulmendoza 5y ago
They trained some of their initial depth vision networks with LiDAR.

salawat 5y ago

This has the same problem as hypothetical sales. You can justify anything if you're willing to accept it into your moral/ethical calculus. I prefer less rationalizatiom and Farquading of others.