3 ms·

Everybody, eh?

belter 5y ago
Everybody as in, the leading experts in theoretical physics of the time: "It was noted by Sir Edmund Whittaker in his 1954 book that David Hilbert had derived the theory of general relativity from an elegant variational principle almost simultaneously with Einstein's discovery of the theory.[B 1] Hilbert's derivation of the theory predated that of Einstein by five days.[B 2]"
- leephillips 5y ago
  Aside from Einstein (and the people he was directly working with, such as Noether), and Hilbert, who else?
  - belter 5y ago
    As I wrote, everybody here, means: The leading experts of the domain at the time and some other eclectic people like Poincare. "Did Einstein discover E = mc2?" https://physicsworld.com/a/did-einstein-discover-e-mc2/#:~:text=Henri%20Poincar%C3%A9%20had%20stated%20that,according%20to%20E%20%3D%20mc2.&text=He%20calculated%20that%20the%20motion,2%20times%20the%20radiant%20energy https://physicsworld.com/a/did-einstein-discover-e-mc2/#:~:t....
    - leephillips 5y ago
      That equation is associated with SR, not GR. I’m not aware of anyone, aside from Einstein and the small group at Göttingen who were working with him, and a couple of his friends, such as Grossmann, who were helping him with the math, even being aware of this work on gravity. But I’m willing to learn. Please provide some names. Who were the “experts of the domain at the time”? For that matter, what is this domain?
      - belter 5y ago
        The equation is not more associated with SR or GR, more than its historical context where it was derived from. Its just a principle of physics SR, GR or any other theory. Who are the people? The Berlin Group, David Hilbert, Carl F. Gauss, Bernhard Riemann, Ernst Mach,Henri Poincaré, Hendrik Lorentz. The domain are the studies on the understanding the most basic fundamentals of physics derived from the analysis of electromagentism that most leading physicists of the time were busy with. Although Hilbert and Poincare are monsters of pure mathematics they were just doing physics by the side. Looking at the biography of Hilbert, it starts to look like almost obvious what happened. In no way it diminishes the stature of Einstein to recognize it. Hilbert was a monster:-) Hilbert did invariant theory, calculus of variations, commutative algebra, algebraic number theory, geometry, spectral theory of operators and its application to integral equations, mathematical physics. Einstein by the contrary, always needed help with Mathematics, since the times at University. That was how he met his first wife... Hilbert was following the work of Einstein but this latest one was struggling to make any progress for years. In the summer 1915, Hilbert's was interested in general relativity, and he invited Einstein to Göttingen to deliver a week of lectures on the subject. Suddenly within a few weeks, Einstein comes up with his Field equations while Hilbert follows with his foundations of physics. The fact that Hilbert fully credited Einstein as the originator of the theory, and did not engage in any public priority dispute is pretty clear was as a statement to the previous work Einstein did for years. With the collaboration and common work that happened its pretty clear, Einstein did not have the mathematical prowess and skill, to come up with those sudden breakthroughs...
        slibhb 5y ago
        > Einstein did not have the mathematical prowess and skill, to come up with those sudden breakthroughs... It sure sounds like you're "diminishing the stature of Einstein" (which is not to say you're wrong)
        handol 5y ago
        If giving his collaborators credit diminishes his stature, then his stature must have become overblown.
- sriku 5y ago
  Is this in any book? Would love to read about it and learn.
  - belter 5y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_History_of_the_Theories_of_Aether_and_Electricity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_History_of_the_Theories_of_A... Be careful however, as unfortunately some, for other reasons, historically tried to appropriate this work, and use to try to diminish the contributions of Einstein. Something that of course, is very much incorrect.

Everybody, eh?

Everybody as in, the leading experts in theoretical physics of the time: "It was noted by Sir Edmund Whittaker in his 1954 book that David Hilbert had derived the theory of general relativity from an elegant variational principle almost simultaneously with Einstein's discovery of the theory.[B 1] Hilbert's derivation of the theory predated that of Einstein by five days.[B 2]"

leephillips 5y ago
Aside from Einstein (and the people he was directly working with, such as Noether), and Hilbert, who else?
- belter 5y ago
  As I wrote, everybody here, means: The leading experts of the domain at the time and some other eclectic people like Poincare. "Did Einstein discover E = mc2?" https://physicsworld.com/a/did-einstein-discover-e-mc2/#:~:text=Henri%20Poincar%C3%A9%20had%20stated%20that,according%20to%20E%20%3D%20mc2.&text=He%20calculated%20that%20the%20motion,2%20times%20the%20radiant%20energy https://physicsworld.com/a/did-einstein-discover-e-mc2/#:~:t....
  - leephillips 5y ago
    That equation is associated with SR, not GR. I’m not aware of anyone, aside from Einstein and the small group at Göttingen who were working with him, and a couple of his friends, such as Grossmann, who were helping him with the math, even being aware of this work on gravity. But I’m willing to learn. Please provide some names. Who were the “experts of the domain at the time”? For that matter, what is this domain?
    - belter 5y ago
      The equation is not more associated with SR or GR, more than its historical context where it was derived from. Its just a principle of physics SR, GR or any other theory. Who are the people? The Berlin Group, David Hilbert, Carl F. Gauss, Bernhard Riemann, Ernst Mach,Henri Poincaré, Hendrik Lorentz. The domain are the studies on the understanding the most basic fundamentals of physics derived from the analysis of electromagentism that most leading physicists of the time were busy with. Although Hilbert and Poincare are monsters of pure mathematics they were just doing physics by the side. Looking at the biography of Hilbert, it starts to look like almost obvious what happened. In no way it diminishes the stature of Einstein to recognize it. Hilbert was a monster:-) Hilbert did invariant theory, calculus of variations, commutative algebra, algebraic number theory, geometry, spectral theory of operators and its application to integral equations, mathematical physics. Einstein by the contrary, always needed help with Mathematics, since the times at University. That was how he met his first wife... Hilbert was following the work of Einstein but this latest one was struggling to make any progress for years. In the summer 1915, Hilbert's was interested in general relativity, and he invited Einstein to Göttingen to deliver a week of lectures on the subject. Suddenly within a few weeks, Einstein comes up with his Field equations while Hilbert follows with his foundations of physics. The fact that Hilbert fully credited Einstein as the originator of the theory, and did not engage in any public priority dispute is pretty clear was as a statement to the previous work Einstein did for years. With the collaboration and common work that happened its pretty clear, Einstein did not have the mathematical prowess and skill, to come up with those sudden breakthroughs...
      - slibhb 5y ago
        > Einstein did not have the mathematical prowess and skill, to come up with those sudden breakthroughs... It sure sounds like you're "diminishing the stature of Einstein" (which is not to say you're wrong)
        handol 5y ago
        If giving his collaborators credit diminishes his stature, then his stature must have become overblown.
sriku 5y ago
Is this in any book? Would love to read about it and learn.
- belter 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_History_of_the_Theories_of_Aether_and_Electricity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_History_of_the_Theories_of_A... Be careful however, as unfortunately some, for other reasons, historically tried to appropriate this work, and use to try to diminish the contributions of Einstein. Something that of course, is very much incorrect.