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My wife recently opened my eyes to the idea that the low rate of female to male programmers is far more cultural than genetic. I found a link, in fact, that spe

• hugh3 15y ago
  It could perhaps be both cultural and genetic. Women are genetically predisposed to prefer one sort of profession to another, and over the years as programming has changed it has increasingly become one sort of profession rather than the other. Or to put it another way, many women love doing Sudoku puzzles. But if solving Sudoku puzzles suddenly became economically productive and a huge market for Sudoku-solving professionals suddenly sprung up, I bet the vast majority of jobs in the industry would suddenly be filled with young men with limited social skills but l33t Sudoku abilities. Ada Lovelace had the good fortune to live when computer programming was a drawing room game for well-brought-up young ladies.
  • microarchitect 15y ago
    Sorry this is just sexist. And people like you who harbor and propagate sexist ideas like this are holding back our field. Princeton's President Shirley Tilghman once said the following and I think it's a fitting quote that speaks directly to people like you. "There are 25 years of good social science that demonstrate the many cultural practices that act collectively to discourage women from entering and continuing careers in science and engineering. The research is overwhelming, and it is there for anybody to see. On the other hand, the data that would suggest there are innate differences in the abilities of men and women to succeed in the natural sciences are nonexistent."
    • ShardPhoenix 15y ago
      If you believe this idea is false, why do you need to label it as a taboo thought-crime ("sexist")? (I didn't think that it was expressed in an aggressive or especially irrational way, in which cases some criticism might have been warranted).
      • microarchitect 15y ago
        If you believe this idea is false, why do you need to label it as a taboo thought-crime ("sexist")? Expressing false ideas is not without cost. We have generation after generation of young women who are socially and culturally conditioned into believing that they're are unsuited for careers in science and engineering. The grandfather is another example of one the many insidious ways in which this happens. As a result, I believe it's completely unacceptable to speculate on these matters, especially when all you have to offer are some sexist opinions unsupported by data. Furthermore, the labeling of the post as sexist is not a "taboo thought-crime", it's a statement of fact. The OP is clearly claiming that young men are better suited to succeed at programming today than women. What is this if not "a chauvinistic belief in the inferiority of women?" [1] [1] (sexist) male chauvinist: a man with a chauvinistic belief in the inferiority of women
        • hugh3 15y ago
          The OP is clearly claiming that young men are better suited to succeed at programming today than women. What is this if not "a chauvinistic belief in the inferiority of women?" [1]* Actually I was claiming that young men are more likely to be interested in programming today than women. The culture of what it means to be a programmer has changed, and the idea of spending ten hours a day slinging Javascript around in order to query some database appeals to a fairly limited subset of the population, who tend overwhelmingly to be male. Whether this subset are the lucky few or the unlucky few is rather a matter of interpretation. Like I said: Sudoku is fun when you do it for ten minutes a day. But doing it for a living would alienate the vast majority of people, and I'm fairly sure that the few who would be left to fill in those square for $120K a year would be mostly men.
          • microarchitect 15y ago
            ten hours a day slinging Javascript around in order to query some database appeals to a fairly limited subset of the population, who tend overwhelmingly to be male. But doing it for a living would alienate the vast majority of people As I said before these are just unsupported claims. And even if these claims were true, this doesn't mean that there is any genetic predisposition of any sort. In short, there's a lot of data to be gathered and analyzed before one confidently make such claims. In the absence of this data, claims like these are also known by the word prejudice. I reiterate that I believe that your statements perpetuate cultural stereotypes that discourage women from entering careers in science and engineering. I'd rather you didn't throw these unsupported claims out that IMHO serve no constructive purpose and simply muddy the water with apparently sexist views.
    • jamesbritt 15y ago
      Princeton's President Shirley Tilghman once said the following and I think it's a fitting quote that speaks directly to people like you. A link to the research instead of a quote from someone asserting research exists would have been a stronger reply. A relevant paper: http://www.pnas.org/content/108/8/3157.full http://www.pnas.org/content/108/8/3157.full
• zachrose 15y ago
  When I was learning to program, more than half the people learning with me were women. Outside that environment, so much of programming is actually arrogant dudes standing around and telling other dudes they're doing it wrong. It seems patently obvious to me that mainstream software development culture is a turn off to people who don't want to play that game.
• Apocryphon 15y ago
  It almost certainly is cultural. I'm in a graduate level SE program, and it is mostly made up of South Asian international students, perhaps 60% of whom are females.