5 ms·

The science is settled, pharmaceuticals are the only way.

mysecretaccount 5y ago
Is this a sincere comment, or is there sarcasm that I am missing? I went from consistently-slightly-high to consistently-low BP by losing a little (~5% bf) weight and biking.
- SQueeeeeL 5y ago
  It seems sarcastic, just pushing the standard narrative of a lack of holistic care seen encouraged by most media
- slaymaker1907 5y ago
  My dad has an incredibly strict diet and does intense exercise (running and biking) nearly everyday. However, he can only control his blood pressure with medication. Some people really do need medication to control their BP adequately.
- themob 5y ago
upsidesinclude 5y ago
canned 'This message brought to you, in part, by Pfizer'
- peoplefromibiza 5y ago
  honestly I don't think there's much money to be made out of those drugs. I'm on drugs for hypertension and they cost me less than 10 euros a month and that's if I go buy them at the pharmacy, if my doctor makes me a prescription they are free for me and I'm sure the government pay them a lot less than a private citizen. They also fall into the category of generic drugs, most of the time they are manufactured in my country by Italian companies.
  - burke 5y ago
    This is where American drug pricing does a lot of work. I used to work for a Canadian Internet pharmacy selling prescription drugs to Americans, splitting the difference between wholesale and US retail prices. A 30-day supply of Lipitor - I think, the most-prescribed drug in America? - is something like $150–200. Our cost was something like a dollar and we'd sell it for something like ten.
    - peoplefromibiza 5y ago
      Impressive and also scary. I'm on lercanidipine and ramipril, a month worth of pills cost 2.50 euros for the former and 3.80 euros for the latter. both are manufactured in Italy.
    - plausibledeny 5y ago
      The generic (Atorvastatin) is widely available for $15/month or less in the US.
- Arainach 5y ago
  Just because something is done by a corporation does not in fact make it bad. Diet and exercise can help, but they take time (serious time for some people) and are expensive. As part of dealing with blood pressure, I switched to cooking my own meals (the salt and cholesterol levels in all restaraunt or ready-to-go meals, not just fast food, are horrifying) but that's a significant time investment and generally just as or more expensive than fast food. I can afford to do that, but someone working two minimum wage jobs just to pay the rent likely can't. Similarly, it's possible for some people with the luxury of working from home and enough income to afford a space with exercise equipment to hop on an exercise bike for one of their many pointless 30 minute meetings each day, but someone who has to live outside the city and commute a few hours in will have much more trouble with that. Drugs work and work fast. My BP was in the 150/100 range and meds brought it down to 115/80 within a week or two. I've been dropping weight and with any luck in the future could go off the meds if I'm able to hold at a lower level, but that requires constant maintenance. They're a great option for many people.
  - upsidesinclude 5y ago
    You have approached this without any humor and I'm baffled. But I digress. In the article, you will find that Dr. Houston does recommend these lifestyle changes and reduction of medications to the extent possible. That extent is entirely. Not that you will achieve it, but it is something you could do, if you so chose. Diet and excersize are not expensive and largely can reduce expenses. Walking a few miles a day is adequate. No equipment nor subscription is necessary. Investigate "five ingredient dinner" or "five minute meals" if time is really pressing. Alternatively, engage with family during the preparation of a meal, get them to join and contribute. This can give kids a valuable life skill and help cut down on screen time and sedentary home life
    - Arainach 5y ago
      Time is a finite commodity. In today's world, a rare and precious one indeed. Cooking takes significant time. Doing dishes takes significant time. Constantly going shopping to keep fresh ingredients in stock takes time. I can go to the store, buy a few dollars of rice, beans, tomatoes, and so on, cook dinner and clean it up, but this is hours of my day every day and the tomatoes and any leafy greens will start going bad rapidly. Alternatively, on my way home from work I can stop by Wendy's, get the four for four combo and get a thousand calories in two minutes for four dollars plus tax. It is more expensive in dollars and dramatically more expensive in time to eat healthy. For people working hourly jobs to survive, people with children who value the ability to spend their few non-working hours a day with them, and so many other cases, there is a very real cost. There is a very vocal segment on the internet, traditionally of upper middle class (or upper class) folks born into wealth that say "why can't everyone just restrain themselves and be healthy" in the same tone of voice as one might say "why wouldn't they just ask their personal trainer for tips" or "what can a banana cost, ten dollars?". They're out of touch with the reality of a huge chunk of society.
datameta 5y ago
In case I am missing the sarcasm, I have to say this is nonsense. I have helped my autoimmune condition with a focused change in diet and exercise at least as much as the medication has. Chronic pain is not as well treated as it could be because we still, most of the time, only prescribe medication. Activation skills counseling (SMART goals), cognitive behavioral therapy, and guided meditation have all been shown to be effective at treating chronic pain.
burke 5y ago
I'm pretty sure this comment is sarcasm, but regardless, it should be pretty obvious that diet and exercise adjustment will fix hypertension in most (not all!) cases, but that: * Lots of people aren't prepared to make the level of change required and so medication can be a better option; and * Medication will probably reduce risk a lot faster than lifestyle adjustment if things are already dire.
- peoplefromibiza 5y ago
  > will fix hypertension in most (not all!) fix I'm not so sure, but help, that is true. I have hypertension myself, it's been in my family for generations, it's a moderate hypertension, but no kind of diet could lower it. Drugs did in a very short amount of time and they are both cheap and had no consequences whatsoever.
- hourislate 5y ago
  >that diet and exercise adjustment will fix hypertension in most (not all!) cases. Not really although it can certainly help. There is evidence that there is a profound change (infection of some sort) in the Kidney and at some point that causes a run away inflammatory response that leads to Hypertension, it is an autoimmune condition that is extremely difficult to manage or get rid of. They believe it may be responsible for a great deal of Essential hypertension in adults today.
  - burke 5y ago
    Interesting. I found this link: https://portlandpress.com/clinsci/article-abstract/135/17/2165/229796/Autoimmune-mediated-renal-disease-and-hypertension?redirectedFrom=fulltext https://portlandpress.com/clinsci/article-abstract/135/17/21...

Is this a sincere comment, or is there sarcasm that I am missing? I went from consistently-slightly-high to consistently-low BP by losing a little (~5% bf) weight and biking.

SQueeeeeL 5y ago
It seems sarcastic, just pushing the standard narrative of a lack of holistic care seen encouraged by most media
slaymaker1907 5y ago
My dad has an incredibly strict diet and does intense exercise (running and biking) nearly everyday. However, he can only control his blood pressure with medication. Some people really do need medication to control their BP adequately.
themob 5y ago

upsidesinclude 5y ago

canned 'This message brought to you, in part, by Pfizer'

peoplefromibiza 5y ago
honestly I don't think there's much money to be made out of those drugs. I'm on drugs for hypertension and they cost me less than 10 euros a month and that's if I go buy them at the pharmacy, if my doctor makes me a prescription they are free for me and I'm sure the government pay them a lot less than a private citizen. They also fall into the category of generic drugs, most of the time they are manufactured in my country by Italian companies.
- burke 5y ago
  This is where American drug pricing does a lot of work. I used to work for a Canadian Internet pharmacy selling prescription drugs to Americans, splitting the difference between wholesale and US retail prices. A 30-day supply of Lipitor - I think, the most-prescribed drug in America? - is something like $150–200. Our cost was something like a dollar and we'd sell it for something like ten.
  - peoplefromibiza 5y ago
    Impressive and also scary. I'm on lercanidipine and ramipril, a month worth of pills cost 2.50 euros for the former and 3.80 euros for the latter. both are manufactured in Italy.
  - plausibledeny 5y ago
    The generic (Atorvastatin) is widely available for $15/month or less in the US.
Arainach 5y ago
Just because something is done by a corporation does not in fact make it bad. Diet and exercise can help, but they take time (serious time for some people) and are expensive. As part of dealing with blood pressure, I switched to cooking my own meals (the salt and cholesterol levels in all restaraunt or ready-to-go meals, not just fast food, are horrifying) but that's a significant time investment and generally just as or more expensive than fast food. I can afford to do that, but someone working two minimum wage jobs just to pay the rent likely can't. Similarly, it's possible for some people with the luxury of working from home and enough income to afford a space with exercise equipment to hop on an exercise bike for one of their many pointless 30 minute meetings each day, but someone who has to live outside the city and commute a few hours in will have much more trouble with that. Drugs work and work fast. My BP was in the 150/100 range and meds brought it down to 115/80 within a week or two. I've been dropping weight and with any luck in the future could go off the meds if I'm able to hold at a lower level, but that requires constant maintenance. They're a great option for many people.
- upsidesinclude 5y ago
  You have approached this without any humor and I'm baffled. But I digress. In the article, you will find that Dr. Houston does recommend these lifestyle changes and reduction of medications to the extent possible. That extent is entirely. Not that you will achieve it, but it is something you could do, if you so chose. Diet and excersize are not expensive and largely can reduce expenses. Walking a few miles a day is adequate. No equipment nor subscription is necessary. Investigate "five ingredient dinner" or "five minute meals" if time is really pressing. Alternatively, engage with family during the preparation of a meal, get them to join and contribute. This can give kids a valuable life skill and help cut down on screen time and sedentary home life
  - Arainach 5y ago
    Time is a finite commodity. In today's world, a rare and precious one indeed. Cooking takes significant time. Doing dishes takes significant time. Constantly going shopping to keep fresh ingredients in stock takes time. I can go to the store, buy a few dollars of rice, beans, tomatoes, and so on, cook dinner and clean it up, but this is hours of my day every day and the tomatoes and any leafy greens will start going bad rapidly. Alternatively, on my way home from work I can stop by Wendy's, get the four for four combo and get a thousand calories in two minutes for four dollars plus tax. It is more expensive in dollars and dramatically more expensive in time to eat healthy. For people working hourly jobs to survive, people with children who value the ability to spend their few non-working hours a day with them, and so many other cases, there is a very real cost. There is a very vocal segment on the internet, traditionally of upper middle class (or upper class) folks born into wealth that say "why can't everyone just restrain themselves and be healthy" in the same tone of voice as one might say "why wouldn't they just ask their personal trainer for tips" or "what can a banana cost, ten dollars?". They're out of touch with the reality of a huge chunk of society.

datameta 5y ago

In case I am missing the sarcasm, I have to say this is nonsense. I have helped my autoimmune condition with a focused change in diet and exercise at least as much as the medication has. Chronic pain is not as well treated as it could be because we still, most of the time, only prescribe medication. Activation skills counseling (SMART goals), cognitive behavioral therapy, and guided meditation have all been shown to be effective at treating chronic pain.

burke 5y ago

I'm pretty sure this comment is sarcasm, but regardless, it should be pretty obvious that diet and exercise adjustment will fix hypertension in most (not all!) cases, but that: * Lots of people aren't prepared to make the level of change required and so medication can be a better option; and * Medication will probably reduce risk a lot faster than lifestyle adjustment if things are already dire.

peoplefromibiza 5y ago
> will fix hypertension in most (not all!) fix I'm not so sure, but help, that is true. I have hypertension myself, it's been in my family for generations, it's a moderate hypertension, but no kind of diet could lower it. Drugs did in a very short amount of time and they are both cheap and had no consequences whatsoever.
hourislate 5y ago
>that diet and exercise adjustment will fix hypertension in most (not all!) cases. Not really although it can certainly help. There is evidence that there is a profound change (infection of some sort) in the Kidney and at some point that causes a run away inflammatory response that leads to Hypertension, it is an autoimmune condition that is extremely difficult to manage or get rid of. They believe it may be responsible for a great deal of Essential hypertension in adults today.
- burke 5y ago
  Interesting. I found this link: https://portlandpress.com/clinsci/article-abstract/135/17/2165/229796/Autoimmune-mediated-renal-disease-and-hypertension?redirectedFrom=fulltext https://portlandpress.com/clinsci/article-abstract/135/17/21...