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The real telling facet here is the implied, but deeply parochial conviction, that left-wing means Democrat and right-wing means Republican. They’re actually bo

The real telling facet here is the implied, but deeply parochial conviction, that left-wing means Democrat and right-wing means Republican. They’re actually both right-wing by global standards, and the distinction looks from the outside like a pissing contest into only one side of the pool. Furthermore the binary status quo appears as manufactured tribalism to keep the American masses busy with minute shades of policy difference. The continuing appearance of articles like this on “Hacker News” indicates not just the large US readership, nor even the confluence of media and technology (something politicians have understood for millenia), but also that even a group skewing thoughtful and analytical can be hijacked by memetic engineering.

jevoten 5y ago
> They’re actually both right-wing by global standards Depends entirely on the issue. On foreign wars, tax policy, or gutting the social safety net, they're both right-wing. On immigration, they're left or extreme left - the Republican party, despite any rhetoric to the contrary, continues the current record-high levels of legal immigration, while the Democratic party doesn't want to enforce any immigration law, and is even giving non-citizens the vote: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/23/nyregion/noncitizen-voting-rights-nyc.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/23/nyregion/noncitizen-votin...
- KerrAvon 5y ago
  Neither party supports open borders last I checked. > the Republican party, despite any rhetoric to the contrary, continues the current record-high levels of legal immigration What about those murderous caravans from South America Fox News keeps telling us about every time we have an election? GOPs paving the road for those? > while the Democratic party doesn't want to enforce any immigration law, and is even giving non-citizens the vote This is completely false. Democrats are enforcing immigration laws, for better or worse. They're just not doing it as inhumanely as Trump was. And New York City is not the Democratic Party.
  - jevoten 5y ago
    > What about those murderous caravans from South America Fox News keeps telling us about Rhetoric. Look at mostly-absent-from-media immigration numbers, and see if you notice any dramatic drops during Republican administrations. > Democrats are enforcing immigration laws, for better or worse. What are sanctuary cities if not deliberate impediments to enforcing immigration laws? And it's not just sanctuary cities - the number of areas where immigration law isn't enforced is rising: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/27/us/politics/biden-immigration-ice-schools-hospitals.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/27/us/politics/biden-immigra...
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > What are sanctuary cities if not deliberate impediments to enforcing immigration laws? Sanctuary cities are not impediments to the federal government enforcing federal immigration laws, they are cities that decline to expending limited local resources to make local law enforcement and social services jobs harder by alienating local immigrant communities by actively enforcing federal laws that it is well established that it is not the responsibility of state or local officials to actively enforce.
- inopinatus 5y ago
  Open borders are a right-wing preference too, since they directly support a laissez-faire economy with itinerant, casual, and seasonal workers. Both major US parties understand this, which is why once again you get the same policy in two different flavours. Neither would dream of suggesting any of these workers should control the means of production.
KerrAvon 5y ago
> They’re actually both right-wing by global standards The center-right wing of the Democratic Party is. The leftmost wing, the AOC side, is center left. > Furthermore the binary status quo appears as manufactured tribalism to keep the American masses busy with minute shades of policy difference This is a very popular take right now, has been for decades among young people, and it is absolutely wrong. Ask any woman or person of color or LGBT+ person. Ask those of us who lived through the 2000 election and 9/11. Also, the Republican Party's official policy position at this point is whatever Trump says, so even assigning them a place on the right/left spectrum is probably a category error. They want the USA ruled by a weak, incompetent dictator.
- inopinatus 5y ago
  > Ask any woman or person of color or LGBT+ person This seems a matter of constituency, not policy. The structural discrimination against black Americans remains starkly evident. To me, assessing “slightly less persecuted” as evidence of major policy distinction is buying into the false dichotomy I complained of further up. > They want the USA ruled by a weak, incompetent dictator. I have to suggest that both parties were enabled by the Trump administration.

jevoten 5y ago

> They’re actually both right-wing by global standards Depends entirely on the issue. On foreign wars, tax policy, or gutting the social safety net, they're both right-wing. On immigration, they're left or extreme left - the Republican party, despite any rhetoric to the contrary, continues the current record-high levels of legal immigration, while the Democratic party doesn't want to enforce any immigration law, and is even giving non-citizens the vote: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/23/nyregion/noncitizen-voting-rights-nyc.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/23/nyregion/noncitizen-votin...

KerrAvon 5y ago
Neither party supports open borders last I checked. > the Republican party, despite any rhetoric to the contrary, continues the current record-high levels of legal immigration What about those murderous caravans from South America Fox News keeps telling us about every time we have an election? GOPs paving the road for those? > while the Democratic party doesn't want to enforce any immigration law, and is even giving non-citizens the vote This is completely false. Democrats are enforcing immigration laws, for better or worse. They're just not doing it as inhumanely as Trump was. And New York City is not the Democratic Party.
- jevoten 5y ago
  > What about those murderous caravans from South America Fox News keeps telling us about Rhetoric. Look at mostly-absent-from-media immigration numbers, and see if you notice any dramatic drops during Republican administrations. > Democrats are enforcing immigration laws, for better or worse. What are sanctuary cities if not deliberate impediments to enforcing immigration laws? And it's not just sanctuary cities - the number of areas where immigration law isn't enforced is rising: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/27/us/politics/biden-immigration-ice-schools-hospitals.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/27/us/politics/biden-immigra...
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > What are sanctuary cities if not deliberate impediments to enforcing immigration laws? Sanctuary cities are not impediments to the federal government enforcing federal immigration laws, they are cities that decline to expending limited local resources to make local law enforcement and social services jobs harder by alienating local immigrant communities by actively enforcing federal laws that it is well established that it is not the responsibility of state or local officials to actively enforce.
inopinatus 5y ago
Open borders are a right-wing preference too, since they directly support a laissez-faire economy with itinerant, casual, and seasonal workers. Both major US parties understand this, which is why once again you get the same policy in two different flavours. Neither would dream of suggesting any of these workers should control the means of production.

KerrAvon 5y ago

> They’re actually both right-wing by global standards The center-right wing of the Democratic Party is. The leftmost wing, the AOC side, is center left. > Furthermore the binary status quo appears as manufactured tribalism to keep the American masses busy with minute shades of policy difference This is a very popular take right now, has been for decades among young people, and it is absolutely wrong. Ask any woman or person of color or LGBT+ person. Ask those of us who lived through the 2000 election and 9/11. Also, the Republican Party's official policy position at this point is whatever Trump says, so even assigning them a place on the right/left spectrum is probably a category error. They want the USA ruled by a weak, incompetent dictator.

inopinatus 5y ago
> Ask any woman or person of color or LGBT+ person This seems a matter of constituency, not policy. The structural discrimination against black Americans remains starkly evident. To me, assessing “slightly less persecuted” as evidence of major policy distinction is buying into the false dichotomy I complained of further up. > They want the USA ruled by a weak, incompetent dictator. I have to suggest that both parties were enabled by the Trump administration.