4 ms·

My 2 cents, as somebody who did CS at UC Berkeley: it doesn't have to be that way. At Berkeley we have gentler intro courses that you can take to learn the basi

My 2 cents, as somebody who did CS at UC Berkeley: it doesn't have to be that way. At Berkeley we have gentler intro courses that you can take to learn the basics of (e.g.) CS and Astronomy. These courses (CS10 and Astro C10) are award-winning. There's no reason one couldn't do, e.g., "The Beauty and Joy of Number Theory" or "The Wonders of Linear Algebra".

whimsicalism 5y ago
If you are just learning results and not proofs, I wouldn't really call that a "math" course. If you are learning proofs, it is going to be a bit of a slog in the way that CS50, etc. can avoid.
- munchbunny 5y ago
  In my experience, if there's one thing missing in math pedagogy, it's that none of the math classes teach you how to think through and write proofs. I was personally fortunate that my high school math teachers made an effort, but that's not that common. It'd be like if the first time you encountered the concept of an "essay" was when you took a history course in college. You'd have a rough time just understanding how to do the homework.
  - zozbot234 5y ago
    > it's that none of the math classes teach you how to think through and write proofs. Formal logic is usually introduced in calculus and discrete math courses. Arguably though it could stand on its own especially if it was taught using modern computer proof assistants, which make the "structuring" of even fairly complex proofs very clear.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
buescher 5y ago
Berkeley is almost an order of magnitude larger than Princeton and so can support a bigger range of courses.
- sgustard 5y ago
  Princeton has an order of magnitude larger financial endowment than Berkeley, if we're comparing resources. I'm not sure if either correlate to "ability to teach a compelling intro course" - depends a lot on the teacher, and dept priorities. As Cal has a million CS majors it'd be easy to imagine them trying to weed out people too.
  - buescher 5y ago
    It doesn't matter how much money they have - if they don't have butts in the seats, schools won't (generally) offer the course. If you want a huge course catalog to choose from, with appropriate courses for every at least semi-serious level of academic interest, go to a school with tens of thousands of undergraduates. I'd bet Princeton doesn't have astronomy-for-actually-quite-smart-poets either.

whimsicalism 5y ago

If you are just learning results and not proofs, I wouldn't really call that a "math" course. If you are learning proofs, it is going to be a bit of a slog in the way that CS50, etc. can avoid.

munchbunny 5y ago
In my experience, if there's one thing missing in math pedagogy, it's that none of the math classes teach you how to think through and write proofs. I was personally fortunate that my high school math teachers made an effort, but that's not that common. It'd be like if the first time you encountered the concept of an "essay" was when you took a history course in college. You'd have a rough time just understanding how to do the homework.
- zozbot234 5y ago
  > it's that none of the math classes teach you how to think through and write proofs. Formal logic is usually introduced in calculus and discrete math courses. Arguably though it could stand on its own especially if it was taught using modern computer proof assistants, which make the "structuring" of even fairly complex proofs very clear.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

buescher 5y ago

Berkeley is almost an order of magnitude larger than Princeton and so can support a bigger range of courses.

sgustard 5y ago
Princeton has an order of magnitude larger financial endowment than Berkeley, if we're comparing resources. I'm not sure if either correlate to "ability to teach a compelling intro course" - depends a lot on the teacher, and dept priorities. As Cal has a million CS majors it'd be easy to imagine them trying to weed out people too.
- buescher 5y ago
  It doesn't matter how much money they have - if they don't have butts in the seats, schools won't (generally) offer the course. If you want a huge course catalog to choose from, with appropriate courses for every at least semi-serious level of academic interest, go to a school with tens of thousands of undergraduates. I'd bet Princeton doesn't have astronomy-for-actually-quite-smart-poets either.