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> His answer was that I may just not have the "mathematical maturity" for the material. I was so discouraged that I dropped out of the program. There's a probl

> His answer was that I may just not have the "mathematical maturity" for the material. I was so discouraged that I dropped out of the program. There's a problem with making a statement like that and not following it up with what you need to do gain the needed "maturity". Even adding "maybe you should take this course over here and come back to this one in a semester..." could make a world of difference.

agumonkey 5y ago
I think usually it boils down to teachers in advanced schools were the kind of pupils who got most things easily and have no clue how to explain things more than <list of set comprehension>. Got me to think that these universities are more magnets from strong ex-pupils to similar minded new pupils that will fit in without much pedagogical efforts.
- User23 5y ago
  The average IQ of math majors is absurdly high, more than two sigma above the mean[1]. In an organization like that the smartest person is likely going to be a breathtaking five sigma above the general population mean[2]. I get the impression that people in math departments like it that way, so weeding out persons of more ordinary intelligence is more of a feature than a bug. I doubt many would admit to that, but it fits the observables. [1] https://chhaylinlim.wordpress.com/2014/09/24/average-iq-per-college-major/ https://chhaylinlim.wordpress.com/2014/09/24/average-iq-per-... [2] Assuming gaussian distribution with no skew, which is probably a bad assumption, but I'm spitballing here. Suffice to say math departments at elite colleges have many extremely bright people.
  - cjbgkagh 5y ago
    IQ has no skew by definition. That said, I think there are a number of IQ boosting mutations and innate mathematical aptitude is likely correlated to possession of one or more of these rare(ish) mutations.
    - mrfox321 5y ago
      survival bias skews IQ in certain fields. taken to the extreme, you're essentially saying that the IQ of field's medalists are not skewed.
      - falcor84 5y ago
        Is it? I would indeed hypothesize that within the population of Fields medalists, IQ distribution is roughly normally distributed. Are you arguing that it is actually skewed towards some cutoff point of "just smart enough to get the medal"?
        vl 5y ago
        The more selection criteria depends on cut-off (which it is in the university setting), the more likely selection from normal distribution is going to be skewed. Then Fields medalists are selected from long tail of already skewed population, all bets are off.
        whatshisface 5y ago
        Let's say every mathematician draws an IQ from the IQ distribution and a luck score from the luck distribution. Then, the highest sum of numbers wins a Fields medal. That would be distributed according to the distribution of the maximum of N Gaussian-distributed random variables, and according to this[0] stack overflow answer, it's skewed downwards, below its mean. (Its mean, of course, is much higher than the mean IQ+Luck). [0] https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/2105921/pdf-for-minimum-and-maximum-of-n-independent-gaussian-random-variables https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/2105921/pdf-for-min...
        im3w1l 5y ago
        > Let's say every mathematician draws an IQ from the IQ distribution and a luck score from the luck distribution. That's a huge assumption. I could easily propose a half dozen other models each with a different conclusion. You would need to look at the data.
  - agumonkey 5y ago
    I wouldn't say feature, but they're probably not naturally inclined toward spending more time raising the average level instead of enjoying the few genius newcomers. There's a small sadness in this but I can't word it out perfectly. ps: I mean I would understand very much that these people just want "new buddies to play hyperstimulating math games with no drag whatsoever" but from school I expect just a few pointers. The rest is on me (us). edit:

agumonkey 5y ago

I think usually it boils down to teachers in advanced schools were the kind of pupils who got most things easily and have no clue how to explain things more than <list of set comprehension>. Got me to think that these universities are more magnets from strong ex-pupils to similar minded new pupils that will fit in without much pedagogical efforts.

User23 5y ago
The average IQ of math majors is absurdly high, more than two sigma above the mean[1]. In an organization like that the smartest person is likely going to be a breathtaking five sigma above the general population mean[2]. I get the impression that people in math departments like it that way, so weeding out persons of more ordinary intelligence is more of a feature than a bug. I doubt many would admit to that, but it fits the observables. [1] https://chhaylinlim.wordpress.com/2014/09/24/average-iq-per-college-major/ https://chhaylinlim.wordpress.com/2014/09/24/average-iq-per-... [2] Assuming gaussian distribution with no skew, which is probably a bad assumption, but I'm spitballing here. Suffice to say math departments at elite colleges have many extremely bright people.
- cjbgkagh 5y ago
  IQ has no skew by definition. That said, I think there are a number of IQ boosting mutations and innate mathematical aptitude is likely correlated to possession of one or more of these rare(ish) mutations.
  - mrfox321 5y ago
    survival bias skews IQ in certain fields. taken to the extreme, you're essentially saying that the IQ of field's medalists are not skewed.
    - falcor84 5y ago
      Is it? I would indeed hypothesize that within the population of Fields medalists, IQ distribution is roughly normally distributed. Are you arguing that it is actually skewed towards some cutoff point of "just smart enough to get the medal"?
      - vl 5y ago
        The more selection criteria depends on cut-off (which it is in the university setting), the more likely selection from normal distribution is going to be skewed. Then Fields medalists are selected from long tail of already skewed population, all bets are off.
      - whatshisface 5y ago
        Let's say every mathematician draws an IQ from the IQ distribution and a luck score from the luck distribution. Then, the highest sum of numbers wins a Fields medal. That would be distributed according to the distribution of the maximum of N Gaussian-distributed random variables, and according to this[0] stack overflow answer, it's skewed downwards, below its mean. (Its mean, of course, is much higher than the mean IQ+Luck). [0] https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/2105921/pdf-for-minimum-and-maximum-of-n-independent-gaussian-random-variables https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/2105921/pdf-for-min...
        im3w1l 5y ago
        > Let's say every mathematician draws an IQ from the IQ distribution and a luck score from the luck distribution. That's a huge assumption. I could easily propose a half dozen other models each with a different conclusion. You would need to look at the data.
- agumonkey 5y ago
  I wouldn't say feature, but they're probably not naturally inclined toward spending more time raising the average level instead of enjoying the few genius newcomers. There's a small sadness in this but I can't word it out perfectly. ps: I mean I would understand very much that these people just want "new buddies to play hyperstimulating math games with no drag whatsoever" but from school I expect just a few pointers. The rest is on me (us). edit: